Seeing the Light in Others w/ Hal Halladay

🌟 See the Light in Others

🤔 Asking “why not?” can Unlock Great Possibilities and Adventures. But, often it requires the Gift of Trust. Therefore, tune into this episode and Discover how Hal Halladay Sees the Light in Others and Inspires Breakthrough Results.

🌟 What We Discuss with Hal:

👉 ⁃       Seeing the Light in Others

👉 ⁃       Asking Why Not?

👉 ⁃       The Gift of Trust

👉 ⁃       Sending Gifts of Love to Ukraine Refugees

 
🌟 About Hal:

Hal Halladay empowers organizations around the world to innovate and drive business growth through coaching and leadership. His proven methods enable organizations and people to achieve breakthrough results. As a C-level executive in high growth companies for 20+ years, Hal developed a proven path to create cultures of performance, leadership & execution excellence - the secret to sustainable growth. Hal is CEO of Breakthrough Leadership where he provides unique leadership development experiences that unlock and expand leadership capabilities in high-growth companies. His coaching and methods give leaders the tools to replace fear with confidence. Hal began his career as an investment banker, working in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. He co-founded Wrap Ukraine with Quilts, a non-profit organization that has provided comfort and love via more than 20,000 handmade quilts to Ukrainian refugee children.

🙏 Thanks, Hal! Reach out, connect, and follow Hal across her social platforms:

👉 -       LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/halghalladay/

👉 -       Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hgoldenh/

🌟 Resources mentioned in the podcast:

👉 ⁃       wrapukrainewithquilts.com

👉 ⁃       Getbreakthroughleadership.com

👉 ⁃       https://getbreakthroughleadership.com/black-rock/

👉 ⁃       Hal’s Inspirational TedX Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrF8gRze1iY

Pre-Order my Latest Book: "Unbreakable Alliances: A Spy Recruiters Authoritative Guide to Cultivating Powerful & Lasting Connections" HERE

Unlocking the Power of Trust: Keynote Speaker Robin Dreeke Shares Secrets to Creating Allies - Robin is the former Chief of the FBI's Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. With over 30 years of experience in recruiting spies and building trust, Robin is the world-renowned speaker you need. Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn from a true expert. Contact us now to book your event! Click HERE to book a time to chat.

🤔 Take Robin's FREE YouTube Keys to Communication Online Course HERE.

😃 Check out Robin's Speaking, and Training Services HERE.

Transcript

Robin: 0:04

Asking why not can unlock great possibilities and adventures. Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. I'm your host, Robin Dreeke, executive coach, former US Marine spy recruiter, bestselling author, and your trust and communication expert. Today's episode, see the Light in Others, is brought to you by my good friend, the great giver of Trust, Hal Halladay and his inspiring organization, Wrap Ukraine in quilts. We need your. To wrap the children and families of Ukraine with a comfort of a handmade quilt. Check out what you can do today and inspirational stories and journeys, and provide a sense of comfort and safety to a refugee family struggling from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Check it out at swapukraineinquilts.com. Coming up next on the Forge By Trust podcast.

Hal: 0:49

And in this experience, there's just times when you need help and you have to go ask for help. And you have to admit you're not capable on your own of doing what it is you've decided to do without someone's help. and I saw the miracles of when I needed help from someone and they showed up. And so when I teach leaders who are trying to be better leaders about trust, first thing I tell them is, you go first. Nobody has to earn your trust. You go first. You trust people and you believe in people. This is what I tell the people I coach. It's always evolving because there's 8 billion people on the earth, and until you've understood all of them, there's work for you to do.

Robin: 1:57

Today's episode, see the Light in Others is with my good friend and inspiration, the incredibly compassionate Hal Halliday. Hal Halliday empowers organizations around the world to innovate and drive business growth through coaching and leadership. His proven methods enable organizations and people to achieve breakthrough results. As a C level executive in high growth companies for 20 plus years, Hal developed a proven path to create cultures of performance leadership and execution excellence, and the secret to sustainable growth. Hal is c e o of breakthrough leadership, where he provides unique leadership development experiences that unlock and expand leadership capabilities in high growth companies. His coaching and methods give leaders the tools to replace fear with confidence. Hal began his career as an investment banker working in New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. He co-founded wrap Ukrainian with quilts, a nonprofit organization that has provided comfort and love via more than 20,000 handmade quilts to Ukrainian refugee children. During the episode today, we talk about see the light in others asking Why not the gift of trust and sending love to Ukraine refugees. Hal, welcome to

Hal: 3:10

Forged By Trust. I've been looking

Robin: 3:12

forward to this immensely for, since our last conversation

Hal: 3:15

we had. Great, well, I'm super glad to be here and another chance to talk to you.

Robin: 3:21

And boy, the things we chatted about last time were really inspiring. And so, ma most important part is the, the title you came up with because it really resonated very strongly with me. And that is see the Light in others. So take us on a journey, what was that? Yeah, spark that started your desire and ability to see the light

Hal: 3:43

in others? It's something that I've tried to do my whole life and I honestly feel like. I got this genetically, or from observing my mom. She passed away in April and so I've had a chance to spend a lot of time thinking about what, you know, what that's meant, processing it all. But she just had this ability to believe in everyone and to see not just what they were, but what they could become. And I think I inherited some of that. I observed it, but I do believe that what has made me the best leader that I can be, and I'm still working on it, cuz leadership's, in my opinion, a mountain without a top. You just keep working at it, it's part of your life. But I have I've sort of adopted this idea of I believed in people. It's helping build trust. It's helped me build a relationship of confidence with people. And so when I s, when I believe, when I see someone. As who they can become. It fills them up with a little something that they can feel and feel that confidence. And we're always second guessing and questioning ourselves. And when as a leader, I can see something in someone for who they can be tomorrow or a, a week from now, a month from now, or a year from now, or 10 years from now, that is going to raise their game. And so,

Robin: 5:08

and Hal, could I stop you for one second? I'd like to go back to your mom a little bit if, if it's okay with you. Yeah. What a great behavior she modeled. Do you happen to remember the first time she saw something in someone and inspired them to

Hal: 5:21

elevate themselves? Well, I can tell you a couple of times when she inspired me and so the first time I was in college, it was right before the 1984 Olympics, which were gonna be in Los Angeles. I was at the University of Utah. And I said to myself, by the way, my mom was also, she had this. Great. Two words. She would always say, anytime you were wondering about something, and it was as simple as this, why not? Right? She had this sense of adventure and curiosity for the world. So where'd

Robin: 5:54

that, where do you think that came from in

Hal: 5:57

her? Her, yeah. She grew up in a very small town. So you know, her, her opportunity to see the world was very limited. It was a agricultural small town. And but her father, my grandfather, who I, his name was Golden and that's my middle name. He had this same, everything was an adventure to him as a kid. You know, we'd go fishing and you just couldn't go up to a piece of water and throw a, your line in. You had to crawl and sneak up on the fish. And it wasn't cuz he was a fisherman, it's because that made the experience all the more richer and of course memorable. I mean, I, I, I, I just remember everything he did, he made bigger and, and in some way just richer just an experience. It wasn't just an event, but it was an experience that you could not forget. So I think she might have learned it or inherited it from him, but here I was, I'm thinking, wow, the Olympics are for me. I was at the University of Utah. You know, 700 miles away, when am I ever gonna get the chance to go to an Olympics and have the free time and flexibility of a college student? So I decided I'd, I'd leave. I wouldn't go to school the spring semester to go to and try and get a job at the Olympics. Of course, I just, you know, checked online to see what the job, well, no, there was, you know, I had to go to the library, find an LA times, look at the back of the paper, find somebody that was hiring a security guard or, or something like that. And I, I, so I get the job long distance back then. Not easy, of course. What was the job doing? Security guard.

Robin: 7:34

What did you do you remember what you had to put in that resume? And that's pretty remarkable to be able to do that by snail mail.

Hal: 7:40

Yeah. I had to have a phone call and then but they did hire me, you know, remotely, which was kind of remarkable that they didn't have an interview, especially for security. But, you know, I I, I tried to share why I'd be responsible, accountable experiences I'd had showing up and, you know, doing the job. And so, and I'd had a few experiences that I think helped me,

Robin: 8:05

I'm sorry. What, what do you think those experiences were that helped you?

Hal: 8:08

Well, for y y any I'd worked as a kid, I, I'd worked a lot. I'd, I'd had you know, my, my father and mother were school teachers, so I just, you know, and, and a value at our house was you work hard, right? And you know, and you earn everything you have. So if I wanted to do something by something, I worked. And so what was your, you know, I just, My first job was delivering a paper that wasn't the newspaper. It was like a, it was almost like an advertisement paper, and it didn't come out regularly and you didn't subscribe to it. It was, you know, it was spam, basically. I think nail, but I got, but I got a, I got a penny of paper, right? So I'd pack, I'd roll and pack, you know, 200 papers into a bag over my shoulder. I'd go door to door with a rubber band, put it on the doorknob. That was my, that was my job. And then it was once, I think we delivered once a week, so my paycheck for the month was like, you know, eight to$10. And but I was, I was 11. You know, and it was a way. You know, I had jobs around the house, but that was like the first time where I left the house, went and did my job, and was saving money to, to buy a bike. So that, that, that's how it started for me.

Robin: 9:30

Absolutely. Life forging things. Yeah. Very similar. Yeah. Yeah.

Hal: 9:33

Keep going. Im sorry. Yeah, and so, you know, and I just had, I just had experiences like that and I, I just tried to be really tried to show accountability. I mean, I just felt like if you're a security guard, by the way, I'm not wearing a gun. I'm, it's just a presence. I, I had a uniform and I'd be at venues and, you know, I remember going to the training and they're like, Hey, if trouble breaks out, you're not the police. No one's expecting you to, you. You know, you let the, you let the police and the, the, the real security do the job. You are there just as a presence. And so, you know, it was kind of a friendly uniform. It didn't, it wasn't like a heavy security job, but I still felt like, well, and I wasn't sure what the job was gonna be when I applied, so I just felt like, you know, the key here is to show that I'm accountable. I'm responsible, I'm dependable. And how old show up? I was 21. Wow. I was 21. And so I, here, here, here I am. And I'm very nervous to go tell my parents. I'm not going. I mean, I've made the decision. I wasn't asking their permission. I'm, I'm going to, Leave school to earn money because I wasn't gonna make a lot of money and I had to travel there and, and, you know, they're not paying you a lot. It, it was somewhere between volunteer and pay. Right? So I, I said, I'm gonna get a job, leave school and to go work at the Olympics in Los Angeles. And, you know, it was just different then. You just, you know, just going places. How are you gonna get the job? So I was very nervous to tell my parents, but I sat down with them and I just remembered my mom being so excited and happy for me. And I was so worried that I was gonna get lectured about being irresponsible and leaving school to go have this, you know, maybe once in a lifetime experience. And I mean, I've never forgotten. I can picture that sitting at the table with them. My dad, on the other hand, gave me a look like, what are you doing? Mm-hmm. But my mom, she rules the day every time. Like, you know, he, she, she's. She stepped right into it with me and said, that's incredible. You know, tell me about it. Where are you gonna stay? What are you gonna do? You know, she wasn't, she had no fear for me. She just had, she just saw the possibilities. And of course, she knew there were details. She knew there were, you'd have to take care of some things, but that wasn't where she focused. Even if maybe that would come up at some point. It, her reaction wasn't, oh, wait a minute, can you answer all these questions? You know, have you thought about all these things? Right. It, it was what she started with, which was, that's awesome. That's going to be, I mean, she knew it. She knew what it would be. She knew exactly what it would be, and it, I just remember. For me, how empowered I felt that to know that I didn't have to fear them be, and therefore the experience because, you know, I, my mom was just, you know, wanted to help and wanted to, wanted, was so excited and happy for me. And so, you know, from, I never feared again making a decision like that, that would be a rich experience, even if it wasn't conventional or even if it was, you know different. I wanna tell you one quick more story about my mom. The, the other really impactful moment where I learned this from her. I was c e o of a software company in 2006 and then into 2008. And and then the financial, you know, big meltdown of, you know, financial crisis 2008. And we couldn't continue to raise money and I had to let everybody go. And I thought, well, I'll just go get a job. I mean, I'm highly employable, right? I couldn't, I couldn't get a, like it just, Wasn't working. I couldn't get a job. And my reunion to go to my business school reunion was coming up, I don't remember what year. And I was somehow my mom knew that. She said, so are you going to Chicago to go to your reunion? And I'm like, I can't go there and be unemployed. Like, I can't face that. And by the way, since I'm not earning money, I don't know if I can even afford the flight. And she just said, okay, well you're going, I'm sending you the money and to go and you're gonna go there and go connect with all those people that you know and love and that no one love you and you're gonna have a great experience. You can't miss that. And so that sort of jolted me out of my sadness and victimness that I was experiencing. And I did go and I learned a powerful lesson. That I'd been to a handful of them before, and I've been to a handful of them since. And that, that experience was no different than any of them. The friends I had, the people that I knew cared about and cared about me, didn't care what I was doing. They, they weren't there to check on what I was doing. They were there to check on me. They cared about me. Hal Halliday, not Hal Halliday, c e o or Hal Halliday you know, fast Food Server. They just, and, and that was a also a powerful they saw me for who I was. They saw me, they saw the light in me. They saw me who they had known for, you know, 20, 20 years, 25 years. And it didn't matter what I was doing. And, you know, I'm so grateful that my mom knew that she, she trusted that the people that I talked about, the friends I'd had, Would treat me that way and that it wouldn't be something that I needed to fear or that I'd be humiliated, but be vulnerable enough to just go and be myself. And by the way, get whatever that, get whatever comes from you being you. And what that result was, was realizing that people really didn't care what I was doing, but they cared about me. So there's two two powerful lessons my mom helped me learn.

Robin: 15:24

Oh, those are fantastic ones. I loved the earlier one. After that experience, you feared nothing ever again. Yeah. That's a, that's a powerful statement. Yeah. And, and both your mom and your friends, they saw you, you said, what did they see? When they see you, what does

Hal: 15:40

someone see? Well I love people, by the way. I'm an introvert, so I've. A brain that likes to think, and I like numbers and I like to, you know, get in my space. But I really love being around people. I love teams. And I love having, how's that, how's that

Robin: 15:59

manifest? What's that look like to someone else? You say you love people. What's that look like?

Hal: 16:04

Getting to know people, connecting with them laughing with them caring about them. Seeing them for, you know, seeing possibilities for them. If they're worried about something or fearful or they wanna leave a job and start a business you know, I'm just, I love to support people in, in jumping out of their comfort zone and taking, you know, leaving something behind to get something better. And so, naturally, you know, when I'm around people, kids, you know, I've been, I've not coached a lot of youth sports. Like, I like finding the things that. People can do that they can't see themselves doing because of fear or everything, some, everything that's been said to them up to that point, and just trying to clear that for them so they can see who they are and have some success as a, you know, especially maybe somebody who hasn't had success or believed in themselves or had parents or teachers or coaches who, or siblings who haven't believed in them. I just, I just love, I just love that, that's why I love coaching because you know, I had a coaching call yesterday and I just told the person, listen, I'm, I'm here because I care about you. I'm not here to judge you. I'm only here to help you get what you want to achieve and to understand what that is. Other than that, I, my, my only agenda is, is who you want to become. And it's just such a incredible way to, for me to live. I don't know if it's for everybody, but for me it's just so rewarding and, and powerful to have. That kind of impact where somebody then discovers something about themselves and then goes on to just being happy to get that fear or, or worry that's in front of them out of the way. It just, it's so liberating.

Robin: 17:49

I'm curious, you mentioned, you've been in a C-suite, you've been a c e O When people hear that, a lot of people will think maybe not as people oriented. have you had any experiences that were challenging because you were so people oriented, even though you're in a, not just a leadership position, but also managerial

Hal: 18:10

position? Yeah. Well, I'm a, I'm an. Specimen because I, I have this math mind logical, kind of strategic mind which is really helpful sometimes. And yet, and Star, I'm a reformed investment banker. I spent seven years working on Wall Street and, and and by the way, that seemed like a very analytical job. But, but I, what I realized is as you progress in that career, it ultimately comes about building trust with companies and relationships. And I'm like, and I got the job because of my analytical skills, but I'm like, wow. This is, this is a dream for me because I know I can build trust quickly with people and connect with them, and so I'm gonna, I'm gonna have the chance to continue to succeed What was your

Robin: 18:55

experiences that you knew you could build trust with people? That's a great skillset to have, as an analytical investment banker.

Hal: 19:03

Well, I, I, here's where it awakened for me. I think, I don't know if I did it intentionally for a long time. First time I, first time rarely is right? So I'm, again, at business school. I discover investment bank and didn't even know what it was till I got to business school. And, you know, it was, it was probably kind of a quiet industry until the late eighties, which is, you know, I graduated in 90 and so that's when it, that's when the economy, a lot of things started to change the internet, all that, you know, that decade up in the nineties. So I, I, I don't come from an Ivy League, Ivy League school. They, they hire the very best people in the country. And I was successful at college, but I wasn't, you know, I. I didn't, it wasn't an Ivy League school and they, they only recruited about 10, 10, 10 schools. But I then I got into a really good business school, so I'm getting, I can get recruited, but then there are people who've worked in investment banking or worked for I B M or worked for brand name companies. And I had didn't have that. So now I'm sitting in the interview room and I know the peers that are next to me that are going into the interview next. And I know that guy worked at Goldman Sachs. I know that guy went to Harvard. And I'm thinking, what, what chance do I even have? I am way outta my league here and I probably don't belong. Those thoughts came to my mind. Then I'm, you know, also trying to remember, well, why not? And you know, what would, what would my mom be telling me right now? And I probably called her and told her that as well. I don't remember that specific conversation, but here's what I did. When I went in into an interview, I, I'd been coached to be sure. And get my agenda across to the person that was hiring me or potentially hiring me. So what am I good at? What do I know how to do? What are my skills? What are my grades, et cetera. So make sure I gotta, you know, you gotta have your list of five things or whatever it was, and you have to make sure by the time that 30 minutes is over, you've, your pitch has been made. And while I realized my pitch, no matter how good I gave, it was not gonna equal the guys next to me based on the waiting room experience. So I walked into the room and I looked around the office of the guy interviewing me for things that I had some connection to. So if I saw he had a a picture at the New York Marathon, then I said, oh, you're a marathon runner. And, and all of a sudden it turned from being an interview to being a conversation. And, you know, we talked about Amer, we talked about running or we talked about, you know, where, you know, I see you went to the University of Utah. Are you a skier? Yeah. Or you know, oh yeah, I love going out. You know, then we're talking about skiing. We didn't talk much about me. What I learned was they would end that interview very happy. I mean, not just like, like superficially happy, but like, feeling good about the experience, whether I was qualified or not. They felt good about the experience and later when they said, Hey, how'd that go? I like that guy. That's a guy I'd like to work with. You know, I, I don't know if I ever had to defend my credentials. I probably did in some of those, but I just decided. I'm gonna go make a connection with these people. I'm not gonna do what they told me to do to get my agenda crossed. What I'm gonna do is listen, I'm gonna ask a question like, oh, you, you, you're a marathoner, or, I, I see you've got that Native American headdress. You know what, what's, that's, what's the story there? And so my questions actually turned into an effective, and I, so I got a job when some of the people in the waiting room didn't right. Who had better credentials than me. And that's when I knew for sure. There's a strategy here that really works with

Robin: 22:57

people, better credentials at things, but not as good as credentials that people. It's not how you make people feel about you that matters. It's how you make them feel about themselves.

Hal: 23:07

Exactly. Yeah.

Robin: 23:08

Elevator pitches only work if you're pitching in terms of their priorities and what, how you're gonna solve their problems,

Hal: 23:13

right? Yeah, exactly. And you know, especially the more senior these people were, they didn't wanna ask me a bunch of, you know, the junior people were all gung ho that that's probably where it wasn't as effective. Cuz they were all about the transaction and mm-hmm. the credentials. But if I was talking, and by the way, who has the most weight in the decision, it's gonna be the managing director. Right? And it's those guys who are like, you know, and, and would remember me, you know, if, if I got a job or even got an, I got an offer. And you know, they'll go back and say, yeah, you're the marathoner, right? You're the guy that we talked about running, like, how, how many miles you get this week? Right? He's running in the winter. Like all of a sudden the conversation wasn't awkward, it was right back to the things we talked about before and it felt. Natural and it felt comfortable and it felt friendly rather than this transaction that everybody walked into feeling like they had to nail it, they had to get it right. That all this pressure to, you know, deliver your, your pitch, all of that. And so I'm not saying that that works every time, but the reason it was powerful to me and why I remember it so clearly and it's been meaningful for me, is because I don't think I get the job any other way. And by the way, I've got a son now who just got a job at Ogilvy in Washington, DC and in May he graduated in May and I didn't have a, I didn't say anything to him about it, but he's like, he wanted to get this job at this company and, you know, which is a big global company. And he did the exact same. He, he, he did the exact same thing. I don't even know if I told him this story before, but he did the exact same thing, right? He went in there, he went to the University of Utah. He's my only kid that out of four that went to the school I did to, but he got back there. He was up, you know, he got somehow into the final 50 for the cell day and, and he told me, My strategy is just to distinguish myself for who I am, not for what I've done. And so I'm gonna take a different approach and rather than, you know, pitch them about me, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna connect with people. And, you know, then he, he was one that got an offer. So, and it was a long shot. He knew it was a long shot and he said, Hey, why not? I, I might as well try it. Right? So I've passed some of those gene genes onto him, which is which generational. Why not? I love it. Yeah. Which was really cool to see. I was super proud of him. I mean, really inspired me that he, he figured it out, took that approach. I mean, I was super proud of him. And then, you know, got the job, which it doesn't always work, but that, you know, that that was, that will be foundational for him. Oh yeah. He'll tell that story in 40 years on whatever a podcast is gonna be in 40 years in a, in a more,

Robin: 25:56

more generational passing on of that Right. Curiosity. Yeah. And why not? So what's next? Business school. We're done with that. We got this. Great job. We're doing great things cuz we're starting to see the light in others, but more importantly, people are seeing a light in us. What's

Hal: 26:13

next? Yeah. Well you know, being somebody who care was just not transactional investment banking, I was sort of at a unique experience. I had some people say, you know, you don't belong here. Somebody tell me on a plane that I was go, you know, a guy I just met and heard about my background and some things. And he is like, yeah, I'm not sure you belong, you know, maybe you should start looking for another job. I mean, he knew me for like 11 minutes. Right, right. And I was like, wow. And I've never forgotten that because that was so I just couldn't even understand, you know, how he could get there. But, and I didn't care what he said. It just was another example of how I didn't wanna be. So, but in the end, that was a hard lifestyle for me and and is for anybody. And I, I really didn't think I'd be there for seven years. I thought I'd, you know, go for a few years. I kind of made that agreement with my wife, but we moved to Los Angeles where the lifestyle was a little different. But ultimately, I, I could see companies I'd go in, you'd sort of see companies from a a 30,000 foot level. And I really wanted to know what it was like to have impact, you know, with strategic decisions and an execution and with people on the ground. And, you know, of course that was a curiosity. I mean, my number one strength is learner, so I'm very curious and I'd like to, I like to do and try things, but you. You know, you find out there's bullets on the ground, like flying at at 30,000, feet's a pretty safe place. And, and so I've had those experiences. I think what can help me as I coach and, you know have leadership workshops and courses and help companies use leadership as a lever for growth is because I, I, I didn't learn coaching by a coaching course. I've, I've, I've been trying to be a better leader my whole life since I was in junior high. I mean, I'll tell you this great story. Since we're telling stories I was in third grade, and by the way, I'm not. I'm not so proud of this, but it tells you a little bit about who I am. But now I'm in third grade and in my mind now, you know, we can't go back and, you know, throw the red flag and go the go to the monitor and do the replay on this. But in my mind, my third grade teacher told us as a class if we achieved this, you know, being quiet for five minutes or everybody got their work done in by the top of the hour, or we got, we got in the lunch line and didn't, you know, flick each other's ears or whatever it was, whatever nonsense. Then we would get to go to recess 15 minutes early. So, and by the way, that was recess was it for me? Like that was the moment of liberation. Right. And so, so you know where it gets, whatever it was, it gets to be 15 minutes before recess. I don't think it was the same day. It was like a week later. And I'm, so, I raised my hand and say and I remember my teacher's name, Ms. Kelly I guess it's time for us to go to recess early. And she's like, what do you mean? And I said, well, remember when you told us if we did this, we could get to go to recess 15 minutes early? And and she's like, no, I don't remember that. And that's not what we're doing. So sit down and, you know, get back to work. Recess will start 15 minutes later when it always does. And I just said, Okay. Thanks for your input. But who in the class remembers when Ms. Kelly said this and then we were gonna get 15 minutes early and every kid, whether they remembered or not, raised their hand. And I said, okay, let's go. And we all walked out the door to recess I, I, that didn't work out so good for me, but everybody actually got up and walked out the door and you know, of course she collared me and was trying to get people back in, but I think she just gave up and figured I'm not gonna get every, I'm not gonna get. So was that this back in the can, was that

Robin: 30:07

before or after your, you learned from your mother to fear nothing?

Hal: 30:12

Well, here's, I think how my mom treated me, helped me be this person, which by the way, you know, my dad had to tell me, listen, you can't do that. And, and I, I remember the stern conversation he had with me. I bet. And he was a school teacher. So he's like, you know, you're the kid that's driving me nuts at school. Like, you know, so, but, but here's what I thought about myself. I just assumed I was the equal to the teacher. I didn't think I was better than, or smarter, but I didn't think there was a power dynamic that had me, her in one place and me in another. I mean, and I, of course, I couldn't think through any of that at the time. I just felt like I was her equal, my opinion mattered, my memory mattered. My, my, you know, point of view mattered as, as much as hers. By the way that that isn't true. You know, really, like I needed to sort of know my place a little bit, but it came from, I think my mom treated me you know, always as an equal as somebody. So because she's didn't see me for who I was at, right. Nine years old, or 10, I guess maybe she, I, I mean this was, this was part of it. I don't know if I've actually ever thought this through this way that she saw me not as a nine year old or 10 year old, but someone who was, you know, more than that when I was that age. And so I assumed I was, and you know, because she would give me choices. She saw your light, not your. Exactly and would ask me, well, you know, what do you think? Or, or what do we do now? Or, you know, what about this? Do you, should we try that? And so, because she saw me maybe differently, I saw myself that way. And so I just assumed I was equal. And, and by the way, the next year I had teachers who saw that in me. And I'll give you a quick, you know, kid's story, another kid's story. I ha you know, we were doing this project and we were learning about people in the, on the Prairie, on the Oregon Trail. And we had to make butter by shaking a jar. And it was one of the activities. Somehow there wasn't enough cream. You know, there was a store that was like a block and a half away. I had a teacher come over to me and say, give me$5 and say, Hal, I need you to run to the store and get some Mitch cream and run back here so we can keep this activity going. And I said, okay. And took the money and ran to the store and ran back and, you know, so he completely trusted me. Completely like to leave school on my own, go to a store, find the product, check out and come back. I mean, I don't think I'd be doing that for, for a kid, but he did. And I honestly think it's because that year they had teachers who valued the way I saw myself, and it was, it was never with. That I thought of as like hubris or pride, or that somehow I'm better than anybody. I never, I just, and by the way, I saw everybody the same way. So I didn't think I was better than anyone. I thought everybody thought saw themselves this way. I thought everybody should be, you know, equal in some way, and, and their voice mattered in some way. But I did find those teachers along the way that were either threatened by that or who thought, wow, I can, I can have a relationship with this kid that's different than maybe with other kids. And ultimately, it, it was trust. Ultimately they, you know, for him to send me, You know, to a store with money to make a, to, you know, as a fourth grader is still kind of remarkable to me. So, wow. You've, you've you've evoked some memories and stories I haven't, I haven't told in a long, in a long time, like in decades. So they're,

Robin: 33:53

they're forging of who we are today. And you Absolutely. The echoes live on forever, throughout our lives, and then we pass'em along. It's, it's a fascinating journey and that's where I wanted to keep going though. as fascinating as the origin story is, the things you've done recently are part of that continuity of your life and seeing the light of others and having that no fear. So I'd like to go there next if possible. Yeah, yeah. And, and your mutual friend Layne and, and what you discovered along this path of trekking across Europe.

Hal: 34:26

Right. Well, Layne Layne, I met Layne and, and

Robin: 34:30

for those listening Layne Gneiting, his episode is recently out as well, so we're making reference to that one. So go back and list that one. Anyway. Sorry,

Hal: 34:37

Hal, go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. You should. I hadn't known Layne very long. I met him actually speakers association, conference in Indie Indianapolis, I think. But we both lived in Phoenix. We both rode bikes. We learned that in Indianapolis. So then we thought, oh, we'll get together. We'll ride a bike. He was riding his bike. He was planning to ride his bike from, if you listen to the podcast, maybe his episode, maybe you'll know that he has this plan to ride through 192 countries. I don't know if he said that, but that's his plan. I just Yeah, so, which to me is, I mean, I'm like, why not? But I, it's unimaginable to me. But he said he was going from Germany into Denmark, Sweden, to Norway, and that connected with me, and it connected with me through my mom actually. So my mom's pretty central of this story too, because my mom's. Ancestry and the ancestor we always heard about was this woman in Norway who left to go to the United States and left her family and came and forged her, forged her way to a new life in the new world in like 1852 or something. And it was a, it was, she was sort of like the sacred ancestor that we all knew the story and she was from Norway and I wasn't sure I wanted to go with Layne. I hadn't known him very long. It was gonna be me and him for 14 days camping together, riding 650 miles, Like, like I'm up for some things, but I wasn't sure. Right. And what was

Robin: 35:58

the point of this? I mean, what was the inspiration to want to want

Hal: 36:01

people? Well, Layne's promise to me, which was absolutely fulfilled times 10, was you will discover things about yourself when you were on the road. And it's a lot to do with identity. You know, I'm a, I was a chief people officer at a, you know, a hundred million software company with 700 employees. And, and he didn't tell me the details, but what I realized when I was there was I just looked like I was homeless, you know, whatever currency I was trading on back in my career life my background, my pedigree, my accomplishments on a bike, on a back road in Sweden, if your bike breaks down, no one cares. No one comes over and says, oh, you're the chief people officer that, or you're the guy that's, you know, worked on Wall Street. So, you know, you confront some things about yourself

Robin: 36:49

And what did you think you needed to discover about yourself on this

Hal: 36:53

trip? Nothing. I mean, honestly, I didn't. The adventure is what drew me. And then when I was thinking about it, I went to see my mom on Mother's Day. Yeah. I, I hope this isn't a broken record about my mom, but I went to see her on Mother's Day and I had this feeling of like, I need to go to my ancestral homeland so I can report back to my mom. And I need to go to this town where this woman came from and tell her about it. And I, I, so I did it kind of for her in a way, and it became less about me. Uhhuh But let me tell you what I did learn, because that is super important. While I didn't have an intention of what I thought I would get, I trusted Layne, I trusted his invitation, I trusted that it would be transformational. And I just went on the adventure to see, and then I realized I did it. Ultimately made the decision when I was not so sure, because I wanted to come back and tell my mom that I'd, I'd ridden my bike to the land of our ancestors. And and of course she was like, why not? So here I go. But here's what I learned. I, in my mind, I didn't have a lot of things. I wasn't seeking something. I, I don't think I was broken in any way, but I was in a rut of success. I was in a rut. I'd learned to play the game. I'd, you know, I'd learned how to success. I like that Yeah. I had, I had learned, I mean, this was the big aha for me. I'd learned how to be a certain way to get certain things and I, and be successful in a certain way. And it was now a habit by the way. You know, good habits, like I'm not, this isn't. Anything about not keeping up good habits, but to go to maybe a next level, to maybe see things differently and, and challenge myself and maybe, you know, create an identity that now is bigger and better and somehow serves the world better. I needed to break out of, of this rutt of seeing myself a certain way. And, you know, when you're just broken down and tired and you need people, I very, I was, I would say the other thing, so, you know, bounce, just getting bounced out of the road of success and seeing myself differently and my identity differently and, and with less ego. And I hadn't had a lot of people tell me, Hey, you got an ego problem. Maybe go on a bike track. But, you know, it, it was just, it was just the game I was playing to keep in the, in the, you know, the path I was on. And as you'll see, you know, a couple years later, I'm not doing that anymore. I'm now helping people as a leadership coach and advisor. So, you know, it, it probably led to some of that. But the other thing that I learned I was very independent. And that also is a trait from my mom, fiercely independent, you know, self-reliant. It's how I was raised and just didn't like needing people. And by the way, you know, at the time, that made a lot of sense to me. And I thought actually that was a strength. And it is a strength, but it, but like all strengths, if you're going to play them all the time, They're not gonna be a strength. It's a strength until it's not. If it's the only game you have in your play, if it's the only play you have in your playbook, it's something's, sometime it's gonna break and it might break hard. Right. And what this taught me was to, while I had a lot of trust for people, I didn't want to be vulnerable enough to let them know that I needed their help. And in this experience, there's just times when you know, you, you need help and you have to go ask for help. And you have to admit you're not capable on your own of doing what it is you've decided to do without someone's help. That's what was hard for me, basically. You know, I can do it, I will do it. No, that, that's ridiculous.

Robin: 40:44

What do you think it was that made you feel safe enough to allow yourself to be vulnerable?

Hal: 40:49

There was no other way. I mean, I was committed to Layne's method, which was, Hey, if this gets hard or you get uncomfortable, you can't pull your credit card out and solve your problem. Or, you know, I mean, you, you can't, you'll miss the experience or if you leave, like, so I was committed to however hard it got to, whatever, however uncomfortable it got, I knew it would be helping me and helping me grow. So I was committed to, committed to doing that. And, and so I did, and so I, and I saw the miracles of when I needed help from someone and they showed up. I saw like the things when we just didn't know we, we were lost or, you know, we saw kindness. I mean, I can tell you we were riding our bike because the map directed us through a military base outside of Copen Copenhagen, and it's called the. The bastion or the, you know, the, but the, for, it's a fortress, you know. Well, we entered the gate when it was open, say at six, and the gates closed at seven. It was so big by, or maybe we came in at six 50 and the gate was opened, the front gate, we got to the other side. Gate was locked. The gate was locked. The military, it was the military, you know, the security or locking it down for the night gates. We get to the guard, he's like, Hey, you know, I mean, kind of with some. A little bit of guard attitude. Like, Hey, why are you guys here? What are you doing? How did you get here? What do you know? You know, he's got a gun and he's just doing his security at military security. And we're like, Hey, you know, sorry, we're lost. We, we, we, we we're traveling through the Citadel and this was the path our map told us. And he's like, well, yeah, the gates closed, you know, 15 minutes ago and I can't let you through. And, you know, we said, okay. And we had a conversation. We said, Hey, listen, we're, we started in Germany, now we're in Denmark, we're going to Norway. We tried to get to know him. We asked him, you know, and he was kind enough to relax and talk to us for a minute. And we said, you know, we're, we're not here to create any problems and we just need to go forward and we'd rather not have to ride 40 minutes back to the other gate and have somebody open that gate for us to let us out and then ride around. And he's like, you know, I'm gonna let you through. Now you know how this works, and I'm, you know, I'm, but I'd like you guys to continue. So he opened the gate and, and he let us through. And I, I, I started realizing that you know, that you just, you just have to ask you, you know, you have to connect to people and then say, can you help me? I need help. I, you know, I'm, that's, that's all I can say. I need help. And people see that, and what I learned was that people want to help. They see you. And they, and sometimes we didn't know we needed help, or somebody just came up to us in a, you know, at a grocery store parking lot and said, Hey, have you guys seen this castle? We're, what are you doing? Oh, we're from America and we're riding our bikes from this, you know, and well, have you seen this castle? No, we didn't know about it. Well, yeah, if you, if you have time, you should go see it. By the way, my house is over here. You can park your bikes in my backyard. I've got a gate. We'll lock'em in and you can, you know, walk up to this castle and guarantee you'll never forget it. One of my favorite pictures of all these trips is me sitting at the top of this castle Layne, took this picture of me and got this relaxed grin present, look on my face. And it's because we have this experience and because this person came and found us and invited us and we trusted, and you know, and, and so this, this has led me to. Go with Lane through Ukraine and Poland and I met some people and,

Robin: 44:44

That's what I really wanted to go to next. This calling of service and this awakening in you, which I know has manifested recently with the trip. Like you said, you went through Ukraine and Poland with all that's going on in the world. So yeah, definitely tell about that and then the Black

Hal: 44:59

Rock Yeah, so we Layne, my son that's working at Ogilvie and I l r rode from Western Ukraine through Lviv and to Krakow Poland. And and it was a just incredible experience and I wanted to see this post-Soviet country like Ukraine, see what, what it was really like, what the people were like. And and I got to through some crazy circumstances and, and just coincidences or miracles, however you want to call it. I met some people who had a. Who were connected to a, a business there, a big business, like 15,000 employees. I told'em what I did and they, they said, well, you know, you should teach a workshop while you're in Lviv at our company. I'm sure our company would love it. And of course, you know, he's not the c e o or even an executive, but he introduced me to someone and Natalia, who was over leadership experiences and. You know, I said, Hey, I, here's what I'm doing and here's why I'm doing it. This is an ex, and this is prior to, and this

Robin: 45:59

is prior to the Russian

Hal: 46:00

Ukraine war, correct? Yes. This was August, 2021, I'm sorry, August, 2021. And I said, the reason I'm doing this is for, to be better as a leader, to be more aware of around me, of people around me, to chisel away at my ego and insecurities, and to get out of the rut of success and to just be more present. And by the way, the world looks pretty cool at 13 miles an hour on a bike and camping. And it just is, it's just an incredible experience. And you have this time to think and, and then you're connecting with people that you, it isn't easy. They don't speak your language. The currency's different, and you have this opportunity to somehow up your game in terms of how you communicate, whether that's, you know, hand signals or Google translate, whatever, but it's not. It's, it's not a rut. You have to work at it. You have to try and you have to listen, and you have to be more intentional with how you relate to people. So all, and I'm telling her all that, and she's, and I said, by the way, getting outta your comfort zone is a absolute strength to be, to be an innovator and to innovate. And they're a, they're an IT company. And she's like, okay, let's do it. So up till this point, you know, everything had happened because of an invitation Layne's invitation of me, me trusting that it would be an experience worthwhile to me, my invitation to, you know, Sergey's invitation to talk to Natalia, and her acceptance of that invitation and trusting it would be a worthwhile conversation. And my invitation to her to. accept an invitation for a workshop. And she trusted and I talked to the chief people officer because I've continued to do work for them. And she said, when I heard this crazy story about these two guys riding their bike camping and they were gonna stop and teach a workshop, I said to Natalia, do you trust these guys? Do you know what their story, you know, she's like, I was very skeptical, but it's turned out to be great because I've done a whole bunch of leadership work for them, but, I have to tell you. So that's the experience and Natalia's story will become important in a minute. But I have to stop and tell you this story because this is the story I teach in my courses about trust to my, to people and companies and people I coach. We, there's a crazy organization that you can join if you're a worldwide cyclist like Layne is, which means that you're open to host people at your house and they're willing to host you if they get on their, if they ship their bike to some foreign land and they're coming through your town, you can contact them through this network of cyclists and say, Hey, could I get a shower at your house or could I. You know, get a bed at your house or a meal at your house. And cuz people, this, this group wants to help everybody and love the experience of seeing somebody from another country doing this, they're open to it. So Layne contacts this guy Siggy in Krakow of and says, Hey, the three of us are coming to c of, you're on the, you're one of the guys who said you're willing to host somebody, somebody, could we stay at your place? And he's like, oh yeah, of course. He said, but you know what? My wife's from Norway and we're traveling to Norway, so we won't be there, but I'll leave the key with the neighbor. I gotta tell you that gift of trust to me of I don't know you and I'm not even gonna be there to meet you, but I'm going to let you stay for two nights in my apartment. What's really remarkable to me, I mean it still. Touches my heart as I say it today. And what it did for me was raise, and this is what I teach. This is the principle that I teach. It raised my trustworthiness. Hmm. I wanted to meet the highest standard of accountability to Siggy for giving me his trust. I did not wanna let him down. I wanted to leave his place better than I found it. I wanted to leave him money, even though he didn't expect it. I, I have tried. I've been back to Crock out. I've tried, I've never met him. I've never talked to him. I came and went. I've tried, we've haven't been able to meet. I've been to Krakow and I'm going again in three weeks. I'm, I want to meet him and thank him for the gift of trust. I mean, it was just remarkable. And then, you know, you could, he lived in this post Soviet. You know, apartment building, he couldn't have fit us. He had three kids, a wife and three kids. They didn't have a bed in that apartment. They had a futon that folded out. They pulled mattresses out of a closet and laid him down on the floor. He had like, this is, he didn't have a lot. And so someone might say, well, he didn't have a lot, he didn't have a lot to lose. What he had was all he had. And if he were to lose any of it, it would've been a big impact because I don't know how he would've recovered. But he had the coolest apartment with a climbing wall with, you know, finger and toe holds on the wall, drilled into the wall so his toddlers could learn to climb. And he had a world map on the ceiling and he had plants, I mean, the way they utilized this space, and you could tell they were a happy family and they just opened it up to the three of us. And it's, it's one of those moments for me that's, You know, life changing. I will never forget it. I will be grateful to him my whole life and to tell this story about how much he trusted me, a stranger, and what that, what that did to my trustworthiness, my accountability to honor his trust. And so when I teach leaders who are trying to be better leaders about trust, first thing I tell them is, you go first. Nobody has to earn your trust. You go first. You trust people and you believe in people. Now, there might be moments in situations that, where that's not a good idea, but in a company, the likelihood that someone's a criminal is very low. So it's a low risk. And by the way, if someone does burn you, who cares? Who really cares? 99 point something. You are going to raise their trustworthiness, their accountability, they're going to honor your gift of trust by being better because they don't want to disappoint you, because this gift of trust is so valuable. And so, you know, and I have people say, no, I, you know, I'm not gonna trust people. I, I was taught, you know, you gotta earn trust. They've gotta earn their trust. They gotta prove it to me. And I'm like, no, they don't. If you're their leader, you give them the gift. They don't have to earn anything. Your job as a leader is to trust people. Absolutely. And watch what will happen. I can guarantee you it's a guarantee. 99 point per something percent are going to overperform and, and exceed your expectations because they don't want to lose the gift of trust that you've given them. So it's a powerful principle that I teach and I learned it most powerfully in this experience. So I gotta, we gotta keep, keep going. The war starts, Natalia leaves as a refugee. Ukraine, I've been doing work with her. She tells me she's gotta leave and take her kids. By the way, these women are leaving with kids, leaving husbands, fathers, sons, brothers behind to fight. So they're going to a new country, you know, not as a family, but as a split family. And it's terrifying. But they aren't, you know, maybe I have, maybe at a vision of refugees from like Africa or other places. These are, you know, Natalia speaks five languages. She's got this, you know, senior level role in a big company. You know, just extremely talented doing the same things we do. But now's their country's getting bombed and, and she sends me a picture of her kids. They're at the border, they're holding a grocery bag of clothes. Out of seven kids, two of them are hers, but of these seven kids at the border, and by the way, they, they don't, they're not trying to have an impact with this folder. She just wants me to know where she is and what's happening. And I felt like she wanted me to know the she want. I was like, maybe somebody outside of that world who could, if something bad happened, Could have a record of her, that she could be seen and, and know that she existed and mattered to the world. Right. And so I felt like she was sort of, you know, I was sort of her testimony of, you know, or witness of this experience for her. Whether sub, whether she did that consciously, she never told me that or asked me anything about it. I, but I told my wife, I think Natalia wants us to know to, to sort of hold. Pictures as who she was. And so but my wife and I saw these pictures of these kids and they had nothing personal. They had nothing of comfort. They're leaving their dad behind their bro, their older brother. And it, it was just heartbreaking. I mean, it really was heartbreaking. And my wife's a quilter and I said, do you think we could, you know, send some quilts to these kids so they could have something that's comforting that's theirs, that it's not just, you know, utilitarian. And, and I knew from my wife being a quilter that a quilt isn't a blanket for warmth. It can do that. But it's real purpose is to care about someone, show someone that you care. All quilts are hand that are handmade, are made as gifts. You don't buy'em in the store. I'm not saying that there aren't a few sold, but they're made as a gift of love. They're often given to a grandchild or to someone who's suffering, or, and everybody that's a quilter is making quilts. And they don't always have even quilts to give, but they have a store, they have'em on the shelves in case someone down the street loses a parent or a child, and they're gonna take'em a quilt and put it around'em and say, I love you. I'm, I'm, I'm concerned about you. So we told Natalia this on a Zoom call and tears came down her cheeks and she said, I, I just can't believe that an American would make something for me, a Ukrainian. And that was an important thing to hear because it said to me that she didn't think because of her culture, because of her history, and because of this war, that she would be worthy of the love and care of somebody that lived in the United States. And I was like, Well, we're gonna prove that wrong. Of course you are. And we're gonna ask some people to help us send some quilts over to you. We thought we could get a couple of hundred. My wife put it on Instagram. She had like, you know, 146 followers. She didn't. Mm-hmm. She didn't have this huge following. We had no evidence that we could do anything more than get a couple of hundred quilts. We knew we could do that from her friends. But from March 17th, the war, you know, the invasion was February 24th. On March 17th is when we decided we would do it. One thing my wife said was, well, gosh, what if we got like 500? Where would we store them? How would we get them there? And all I could say was, besides why not was mm-hmm wouldn't that be cool? Wouldn't that be an awesome problem to solve if we didn't have any way to know how to handle too many quilts? Okay. I hope that happens somehow. Well, since March 17th, every day. Quilts have shown up on my porch from u p s, from the US Mail, from Dropoff. People from all 50 states have sent quilts and we have gotten them through another miracle, through a partner to Poland. I've taken three trips to Poland and, and hand delivered many, but you know, a couple of thousand probably. But as of you know, last week we had, had received donations and delivered over 20,000 handmade quilts. Now, when I would tell people that we'd had a thousand and it was like a complete miracle to me, I realized I had to figure out a way to tell people what a thousand quilts meant cuz I'd lifted them all off my porch, I'd taken'em to the people who were shipping them for us. And I knew exactly what that meant. I knew what a bag of 50 felt like. You know, I mean, if I knew what I knew how many quilts, 50 pounds was, cuz I, that's the limit for extra baggage on, you know, a flight to Poland. So 20,000 quilts is the equivalent of about 24 tons of quilts. It's the, the materials value is between six and 7 million. And the time is that donated to make the quilts is north of 300,000. It's about 36 years. You know, 315,000 hours is about 36 years of time. And and I had somebody say to me in April by the way, we put a QR code on every quilt so that the person who gets the quilt. If they scan, the QR code of window pops up, not an email address or anything, but a window. And in Ukrainian it says, we love you, we care about you. Hmm. We want you to know that we're concerned and this quilt is to show that. And it's handmade by me. I hope you're safe. And then if you'd like to respond, this is all in Ukrainian. If you'd like to respond to the person who made this quilt, you can type your message here. So now quilters back in the US are getting contacted with messages in Ukrainian and broken English, and they have to goo you go to Google Translate. But we've, we're making these connections between these Ukrainian women and these women in the US who have made these quilts to help these women and their kids. And that's, that has helped people trust our organization. That's what's driven the growth is. When they've had this, you know, acknowledgement that they're making a difference, then they've been willing to trust us with more and do more. And what has surprised us is the gratitude of the people that are making the quilts. We knew the refugees would be grateful. We hadn't have any doubt about that, but we've had so many people come and say, thank you for the opportunity to share my gift, to share my talent. I didn't know how to help. I wanted to help. I've been concerned about these people. I, I didn't know what to do. And you've given me that and you've now, I now have a friend on Facebook who's in Ukraine, and I now, I'm, I was making one a month, now I'm making one a week. And it goes on and on and on. But this guy said to me in April, are you concerned that you won't, that Ukrainians won't, the people won't make as many blankets. In the summer because it's not cold and Ukrainians won't need to stay warm. And I had just never seen a quilt that way because of my wife and the experience I've had. I'm like, wait, wait a minute. A quilts, you know, fifth priority is warmth. It's first priority is, this is a gift of love to you. It's second is that it's unique. You know, quilts are made from a variety of different fabrics and patterns and so the, you know, there's a trillion variations of that given all the options. Right. And so a quilts unique. And so a little seven year old that has no, no other quilt is that around, is gonna look like his, and it's his, it's very unique. It, you can wrap it around you. And it's a, a gift of care and love and, you know, yeah. So in winter, and we've, we've pushed this, Hey, we need more quilts cuz it's winter, but it's, there's a, this, this distinction between blanket and quilt and which brings me to the BlackRock. Right. So I had a chance to take this in a TED talk and include my experience. Yeah, you've got one. I got mine right here. That's right. And and give a Ted Talk in Katowice Poland, 20 miles from Auschwitz. A crazy coincidence that that, that that's where I was and that my Ted talk would start with talking about Hitler, Jews and how he could only see them as a black rock. Something that was not unique, not powerful, that couldn't change, but that was fixed in his mind of who they were. And Putin sees Ukrainians the same way. And in my Ted talk I would say, well, you know, they're just Ukrainians, right? They're, it's, it's just a black rock, or they're just Jews. Right? It's just a black rock. And I mentioned that sometimes companies see their employees as just a black rock, not. They don't see them as valuable assets. They see them as production, as assets, but not really who they truly are. And so they see them in a fixed certain way. And, you know, sometimes truthfully, we see ourselves as just a BlackRock, maybe not capable and, and we can't get out of that. And that's contributed to a mental health crisis. And I talk a little bit about suicide rates for youth but the whole idea throughout the whole talk, and I taped 300 of these under the seats in this theater. Old ti you know, couple hundred year old theater in Kadavice, Poland. And, and I mentioned that BlackRock thinking has led to, you know, wars. It's, it's led to layoffs, it's led to heartache, it's led to suicide. This way of thinking of judging. And thinking we know about someone without really trying to understand them or seeing them for what they can become, I'm stuck on maybe what they are at the moment versus what they can become. So that was the, and at the end of the TED Talk, I, I asked the audience to get out their phone and turn the light on and to, you know, put their phone flat like this and I'll turn it so you could see it. But when you take this black rock and you put it over light, I hope you can kind of see that, but it is really listening.

Robin: 1:03:44

And for those listen and not tuning on the YouTube channel is actually holding the flashlight function of the cell phone behind the Black Rock. And you can

Hal: 1:03:52

actually see through it. Yeah, it's Claire's glass, it's Claire's gra glass. And so often as I've showed this to people, they're like, wow, it changed. And there is the magic of the principle. It hasn't changed how we've seen The Rock has changed. How we might see someone has changed. And so I challenged people and I challenge anybody listening today to ask, what am I not seeing? And by the way, the antidote for BlackRock thinking is to say, tell me more. Mm-hmm. which is just, it's just a magic trick. Yep. And people will just open up it, it's an invitation of trust. And then lastly, to listen after you've said, tell me more. To listen until you see the light in others. To see the light in that person you're having the conversation with. And so that sort of, this little principle sums up, I guess my life of experiences that I shared in third and fourth grade and in college and, you know, 25 years later seeing the light in others seeing the light in yourself not seeing you for who you are when you start the bike track. But believing that there's some opportunity for you to improve, grow, get better, because being, being a better human being, a better leader really is this mountain without a top. It's not a checklist that you can just cl click off it. There's not an endpoint, you know, if there, there is no destination for leadership, it is always evolving. This is what I tell the people I coach. It's always evolving because there's 8 billion people on the earth, and until you've understood all of them, there's work for you to do. That's true. So get after it. Good luck. So yeah. I'm, if you know there, there you can go to a little website. You can order this. There's a little video of me talking about it. If I, you know, I'm gonna be shipping it to you. So there's a s a small shipping awesome fee, but it comes with this, this little tent card you can put on your desk with the rock that says, see the light and others and treat them is mine. That's, yeah, I have it right here. Yeah. Great.

Robin: 1:05:57

Hal, we could keep going forever. But we've been on a great journey together for a, a while, from your earliest days, the phenomenal lessons, generational lessons from your mom. What's something that I should have asked you that I didn't get a chance to ask you to, you wanted to make sure you shared? If we didn't cover it already?

Hal: 1:06:18

Nothing but I do wanna point, I do want, cuz I've talked a lot, I do wanna point this out. You did ask me to tell me, right? This, this experience I just had, I talked about a, an experience in third and fourth grade I probably haven't talked about in a long time. I talked about my mom in ways that I probably have not talked about to anybody in a long time. They're meaningful experiences for me. But you asked more than once to tell me, Hey Hal, can you tell me more about that? Or, you know, why don't you talk a little bit? And what that did for me today was bring up these experiences that I'm glad I had a chance to talk about that I'm glad I got a, was reminded of. So I want to thank you for your ability to do that and just have it be a witness that this works. It, I, we didn't plan it. We didn't script it, but you did ask me more than once to tell me more. And what you got from that was, oh, wait a minute. When I was 11 years old, I hadn't planned to talk about any of that. And I think that enriched the conversation. It enriched my experience being here cuz I gotta share some really cool things about my life that I hadn't thought about in a while. So thank you for saying, tell me more. I really appreciate that, Robin. Thanks

Robin: 1:07:36

Hal. I, if you could see my goosebumps on my arms I'm equally, it was a beautiful conversation and I can't thank you enough for taking us on that journey. Hal, where can people go to find out more about you and your amazing Black Rock as well as your inspirational work you're doing with quilts for the refugees coming from Ukraine and Pro? I can only imagine where you're gonna go next with

Hal: 1:07:58

it. Yeah. Well, it's wrapukrainewithquilts.com. That's, that's the place I'd like you to go. We're, and if you're not a quilter and you wanna donate some money to help us advance it, you know, to, we're now sending quilts to people in the United States because, Refugees are starting to come here. Most of them thought they could go to Poland and then return to Ukraine. That was their plan. But now they're seeing it. They might need to do something more long-term. Yeah. Some of them are choosing to come here. So there's a cost to shipping here. We've got a partner to help us ship to Europe. My business is, and my leadership and coaching is getbreakthroughleadership.com. And for slash so you can go see about that. But for slash Black Rock is the place you can get the, the free Black Rock, and I think it's in the notes as well. So yeah, if you like a rock, by the way if you're a leader or a parent or whatever, I'm, I'll send you also a pdf. It's an eight page PDF on how to teach this principle, what some of the quotes are. Yeah. It's just a lesson plan that like tomorrow you could read that and tomorrow you could be teaching this really simply and a pa a 10 page PowerPoint that has sort of the key slides with some of the principles and pictures of the rock and stuff. So it's plug and play, ready to go if you wanna share it with people. Cuz what I'm trying to do is have more people in this world say, tell me more and be more curious and less judgmental. Love it.

Robin: 1:09:26

Hal, thanks so much for coming on and being such an inspiration and making such a massive difference in the world and everyone you touch. So thanks again,

Hal: 1:09:34

Hal. Thanks Robin. I appreciate it.

Robin: 1:09:37

Thank you for tuning into another episode of Forged By Trust. Remember, if you want to forge trust, it's not how you make people feel about you that matters. It's how you make them feel about themselves. If you are interested in more information about how I can help you forge your own trust, building communication, interpersonal strategies, as your coach, professional speaker, or a trusted advisor for your organization, please visit my website at www.peopleformula.com. I'm looking forward to sharing my next Forge by Trust episode with you next week when we chat with body language expert Blanca Cobb, and creating the relationships you want.