Threads of Bravery w/ Pascalle Bergmans

🌟 Threads of Bravery: How Attentive Talking, Forgiveness, and Trust can Make You Invincible and Transform Your Life"

🤔 Each of us has a Unique Origin Story and it Has Created a Thread in Our Lives. But, Sometimes we need a “Fairy Godmother” to unlock our potential. Therefore, tune in and discover how Pascalle Bergmans can show you how to Solve Your Greatest Challenges through Powerful Storytelling and accept her Invitation to Be Brave.  

🌟 What We Discuss with Pascalle:

👉 ⁃       Origins of Bravery Through the Threads in Our Lives

👉 ⁃       Attentive Talking

👉 ⁃       Solving Problems Through Powerful Storytelling

👉 ⁃       An Invitation to be Brave

 
🌟 About Pascalle:

Pascalle Bergmans is a talented entrepreneur, speaker, and presentation expert with a passion for helping people improve their communication skills. With years of experience in the industry, Pascalle has helped countless individuals and businesses create engaging and effective presentations that leave a lasting impression.

As the founder of Presentales, Pascalle provides customized training and coaching programs for clients across a range of industries, including finance, healthcare, and technology. Her approach is grounded in her deep understanding of human psychology and the power of storytelling to connect with audiences on an emotional level.

Pascalle is also a sought-after speaker, delivering keynotes and workshops at conferences and events around the world. Her engaging style and practical insights have earned her a reputation as a dynamic and inspiring speaker.

Whether you're looking to improve your public speaking skills, create more effective presentations, or simply communicate more confidently and authentically, Pascalle Bergmans is the expert you need to help you achieve your goals.

🙏 Thanks, Pascalle! Reach out, connect, and follow Pascalle across all her social platforms:

👉 -       https://www.linkedin.com/in/pascalle-bergmans-285924154/

🌟 Resources Mentioned in the Podcast: 

👉 -       https://www.presentales.com/

Pre-Order my Latest Book: "Unbreakable Alliances: A Spy Recruiters Authoritative Guide to Cultivating Powerful & Lasting Connections" HERE

Unlocking the Power of Trust: Keynote Speaker Robin Dreeke Shares Secrets to Creating Allies - Robin is the former Chief of the FBI's Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. With over 30 years of experience in recruiting spies and building trust, Robin is the world-renowned speaker you need. Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn from a true expert. Contact us now to book your event! Click HERE to book a time to chat.

🤔 Take Robin's FREE YouTube Keys to Communication Online Course HERE.

😃 Check out Robin's Speaking, and Training Services HERE.

Transcript

Robin: 0:05

Each of us has a unique origin story, and it has created a thread in our lives, but sometimes we need a fairy godmother to unlock our potential. Therefore, tune in and discover how Pascalle Bergman's can show you how to solve your greatest challenges through powerful storytelling and accept her invitation to be brave. Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. I'm your host, Robin Dreeke, professional speaker, executive coach, former US Marine spy recruiter, bestselling author, and your trust and communication expert. Coming up next on the Forge By Trust podcast. I

Pascalle: 0:36

want to invite people to just be more brave because the worst thing that can happen is that you didn't do it. Do it and just try it. And even if it's just dipping your toe in the water, but invite yourself and allow yourself, right? It's, it's allowing yourself to be that brave to say, this is who I am, this is what I do, and this is what I'm here for.

Robin: 1:27

Today's episode Threads a bravery is with my good friend, the fairy godmother for public speaking and storytelling, Pascalle Bergmans. From the lead in London's production of Wicked, a life-threatening and changing illness, becoming a Master storyteller for industry, Pascalle defines bravery. During the episode today, we talk about origins of bravery through the threads in our lives, attentive talking, solving problems through powerful storytelling, and an invitation to be brave. Welcome to Forged by Trust.

Pascalle: 1:59

Yay. Thank you. I love

Robin: 2:01

it. Yay. So we met a a little bit of time ago and I've had the amazing fortunate pleasure of following you on social media and LinkedIn and the great, phenomenal content you put out there. Oh, thank you. And the most impressive thing that I can really see and observe in you is something, I don't know if you've been told this before, you probably have then, because it's so evident to me, probably others. You have profound, bravery.

Pascalle: 2:31

Oh, thank you.

Robin: 2:33

And what I mean by that, I mean you put out content that is brave and it's beautiful and it's wonderful, it's inspiring and, and we'll get to the destination of, of impact story and telling by the end. But I'm curious, what was it when you were growing up that you think gave you that amazing bravery to be who you

Pascalle: 2:54

are today? Yeah, that's a very good question. I think it's, it's a multitude of things, right? I saw my parents always doing their best to, to be the best version of themselves.

Robin: 3:06

Okay, so now you already started. You can start me on it. Your parents doing the best. Yes. They were. What, what did they do? Where did you

Pascalle: 3:14

grow up? So I grew up in the Netherlands you know, small town Dutch girl where everybody knew each other and my parents. I just always saw them work incredibly hard to be the best version they could be in that given moment. And what did they do? So my dad's a physiotherapist and he has built a magnificent company helping other people move, which is obviously fantastic. Oh wow. And my mom well she started off, you know, being a musical theater. She used to play Tinkerbell in Peter Pan, which is an incredible story. I wanna

Robin: 3:48

hear it. Let's hear this story about her tinkered

Pascalle: 3:51

bell. Yeah. So she used to wear this like really. Lime Green glittery costume, and she played Tinkerbell in this musical Peter Pan. And I remember we had career day or something in school. How old were you? I must have been four or five years old. Very young. Very young. Too young to understand that this wasn't a real thing. Right. She was playacting yeah, it was, it was fantastic. And in school they were sort of doing the rounds and What do your mommy and daddy do? So I was like, oh, my dad's a physiotherapist and my mom is Tinkerbell. Instead of saying she's an actress. I love that. I said, number Mom, please. She, she's Thinker Bell. And I remember one boy he was like, well that's not possible cuz Thinker Bell isn't real. And I got so upset that I went home crying and I said, mom this kid in my class says that you are not real. And she just went, hold on. She went and got her costume. Put herself in glitter and everything. Got some fairy dusts, went into school, literally went into the classroom and was like, all right, who said this? It was amazing. And this kid just went fair play. She is Tinkerbell. I will shut up now. And I think it was that they were so convinced of whatever they did that was what they were gonna do with their whole heart and mind and body and spirit that that sort of just transferred over to me and my.

Robin: 5:15

Yes, it did. And how old's your sister? Is she older, younger than you?

Pascalle: 5:18

Younger? She's two and a half years younger. She is a singer in the Netherlands and she's just absolutely magnificent. Yeah. How did your parents meet? Good question. They live in, you know, my mom is from Bergen Zone, which is, okay, say that again. Bergen Zone. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a touch place. It's an even smaller town than where my dad's from. And one night her and her girlfriends decided to go and party in this town 15 minutes away. She has been brought up in a family that was very closed off from the world, I think you could say. Very protected. There's nothing wrong with that, but she wanted to be an actress from a young age, and she was told, right, well, that's not a real job and don't you wanna do something that's a bit, you know, it's gonna get you money? What,

Robin: 6:04

what, what do you think was her inspiration and want to be an actress at a young age?

Pascalle: 6:08

I think so she was bullied a lot and I think it was an escapism, right? Because acting and telling other people's stories can be very powerful. And I think that for her was a way of expressing herself. Cuz I don't think she got that at home, right, necessarily. Right. So I think this was her way of, of escaping that and being able to, you know, if she's angry, she could be angry through that character. Or if she was happy, she could be happy through that character. Right. Because. Couldn't develop it at home in a safe way.

Robin: 6:39

Wow. Okay, so, I'm sorry. Bring us back up how they.

Pascalle: 6:42

Yeah. So my mom decided to go partying and she walked into this bar and there my dad was, and they looked at each other and, well, the way my dad tells the story, he says that he went to the bathroom and he looked himself in in the eye and was like, okay, you're done. Cuz my dad liked to party and he was a bit of a, Flirt and he is like, this is it. This is the woman. But my mom happened to have a boyfriend at the time, so the next day this guy goes to my mom's house like, oh, I'm gonna take you out for a date. And she's like, no, I've met the love of my life and it isn't you. So we asked him and you know, my parents got together. After five years there was me, and two years later there was my sister. And they are such an inspiration for me, not just in like career. You know, work, it's more how they look at life and how they, they have such bravery and they just do what they want to do. They've both been told many times, don't do that. It's a bad idea. Don't do that. It's gonna be very hard. And they are the ones who go, I'm gonna show you that I can do it. And I think, Yeah, that totally went into me and my sister. It's in my jeans. And they, yeah, they both just smashed it out of the park. They really have. Oh, that's

Robin: 7:59

beautiful. Yeah. So here we are. Your mom's Tinkerbell. Your dad's a, a physiotherapist, is that how you say it?

Pascalle: 8:05

Physiotherapist? Yes. How do you get into wanting to do that? So he's always been into sports and stuff. He's always. Just, he was horse riding for a long time. Uhhuh, he used to jump horses for really rich people. And he's, you know, he went into the army cuz he was, you know, this, this crazy kid who just needed an outlet and he felt like the army was a good place for him. So he did, he did a really great job, but, You know, he, he wanted something else and he wanted to help people. I think both my parents are always up for making someone else's life better. Right? And just completely putting their lives aside, just going, no, I'm gonna help you right now. So he, you know, he is got a knack for signs. He's good with words. And in order to do physiotherapy, he needs to know a lot of words because all the different bones and whatever, and ligaments in the body have their own Latin name. So, He he did that degree and he started his own business. And his grandfather was, I mean, he comes from a family of doctors and nurses. So yeah, so I think it's just, you know, in him and my, his dad lend him the first you know, bit of money to start his business and funnily enough, my dad lend me my money to serve my business. And yeah, he just got cracking and with within like no time, he sort of blew up and he didn't, You now it's three practices. And his, you know, he is well renowned in, in the Netherlands for being the person that can help people who have been everywhere, but to him. And he's, he's definitely changed a lot of people's lives. Like people who can't walk anymore can now walk. And he uses the mind. As well as how the body works, cuz he, you know, he's like, this is interlinked with each other. Yeah. So he doesn't just help people by massaging them. He talks to them and he goes, well your problem isn't how you stand, how you walk. The problem is that you are keeping tension in your shoulders, for example. So if you don't let go of these things in life, you're gonna have this pain forever, no matter how many massages you get. Right? Yeah. So he is, yeah, I've learned a lot from him in that way.

Robin: 10:09

It's a beautiful blend. Yeah. What kind of things do you think he was doing that made him so successful with people? He, with people?

Pascalle: 10:19

Yeah. I think he had a very clear vision and he knew where he wanted to end up. This is it like in a conversation, he knew where he wanted them at the end of the conversation. So he reversed engineered everything. So he went, if I want you to think like this, by the end I need to start off like this and I need to guide you through this journey so that we can get to this point. And I think he's always had that very clear and you know, some people might say that's manipulative, but it's just attenti. Talking Really, it's just a, it's talking right attentive talking where you know where you need to go. So if you are taking the lenient conversation or in a presentation, you need to be able to say, take my hand. I'll lead you there. So it's not a manipulative thing, it's a let me take care of you thing.

Robin: 11:06

Right? What an impactful childhood fool with rich relationships.

Pascalle: 11:14

Absolutely. I mean lots of kids from my childhood will be able to remember the conversations in the kitchen. My mom used to cook a lot which eventually led up to her being a chef after she, gosh, musical theater. Yeah. You know, for a while she was a stay-at-home mom, and then she transitioned into being a chef and we had all these kids coming over and we would just stand in the kitchen while Stu was cooking or my dad was, you know, cooking and they were, we were just all together. We would just sit on the work blade, you know, or just stand there and just talk about life. And I think those conversations in that moment, you're a teenager or you're a kid and you don't understand how powerful that is. But now that I'm older, I find I'm having those conversations in my kitchen with friends of mine and. It's so amazing that my parents got to change so many people's lives, their perspectives, their mindset, and they got to give all that love because we have so much to give. Yeah, to give it right. There is so much inside of us, and I think we need to keep on giving because the more you give, the more you are, you know, you will have.

Robin: 12:22

I'm dumbfounded by that. It's again, I You keep using that word. Beautiful. What do you think it was that they were doing that inspired even your teenage friends to want to share with them and be part of their lives? That's

Pascalle: 12:36

unusual. Yeah. This is something that I've discussed with many of my friends and even with my partner, because when he joined our family, he was like, Gosh, your parents are really very different people. And he's like, I know. I know why you are who you are because of them. Right? And it's, I think it's the complete openness. And they never assume anything, right? So they don't judge, they don't assume, and they let you be who you are, right? If this is what you want to share, that's what you want to share. I'm not gonna go pry. If you wanna tell me, you can tell me, and I think it was this, it was like an unspoken thing that just was in our house. Like this is a safe space and whatever will we discuss stays between us. And I'm not gonna judge you if you're gonna tell me that you did something bad, you did something. That's fine. We make mistakes. There was this instant forgiveness in our family, and we could, I mean, we don't describe ourselves as the Italians of the North because we're quite a passionate family. We say how it is, and I think that's what people like about us. It's directness. People that might scare some people, right? They're like, oh God, she's gonna speak her mind, but it also means that you'll always know what I mean. Mm-hmm. There'll never be. A mask in front of my face. They're like, oh, she's just playing this nice person. No, if I don't like something that you're doing, I'll tell you and I'll tell you with love, but I will still tell you. Right? And I'll make sure you understand the message. And I think having that openness, that instant forgiveness, the accepting nature of both of my parents made all of these people just open. Because they were like, oh, cool, this is, this is safe.

Robin: 14:15

Do you remember the first time you shared something that you're afraid to share and, and you quickly learned you were No. You didn't need to be afraid.

Pascalle: 14:22

Yes, I think I do. I must have been, yeah, I think I actually made someone else share something first. My sister, I remember it really well. I must have been. She had smoked her first cigarette and so I must have been 12. She was 10. She was very young. And she obviously as kids do like, oh, we found a cigarette. And they, they tried it. And I remember her coming into my room and she was crying. She's like, I've, I've done something terrible and I dunno how to tell her parents. And I was like, well, let's go and tell'em together. So we stood there hand in Manhattan and she told her story and my parents were like, oh, it's so cute. Yeah, it was so cute. So it was really cute. And they. They just were like, okay, well why did you do that? And they didn't get angry. And I remember seeing that sort of almost as an outsider of their conversation. I was like, huh, there's not much you're honest about things. Nobody's gonna care what you did. They wanna know why you did it. And they wanna understand how you got to making this choice. But there is always room for, okay, well let's try it a different way next time. So forgiveness I think is the most important thing we need to learn as people because you can get, get angry with someone. They might have heard you, yes, and that's horrible, but nobody benefits from staying angry. So the best thing you can do is ask them why? Why did you do that? Not that you did it. Why did you do it? You can have a conversation about that.

Robin: 15:51

Beautiful example. Mm-hmm. All right, so here we are. We have this rich background with our parents and our sister, and what did we think we wanted to be when we were growing up?

Pascalle: 16:02

I, well, I wanted to be princess. This was my goal. I honestly was convinced that I was royalty. Why not? I was just like, No, I'm a princess. Like I, I watched a lot of Disney movies and that was the life for me. I just wanted, that was the line for me. Honestly. This was it. This was my goal as a, yes. I wanna wear bowl gowns, tiaras, I wanna find a prince, and that's my life. So I wasn't very commercially minded when you come. You know, I no real career path in mind. But I, I've been on stage since. Four. Right. So I helped my mom in Peter Pan and I sort of fell in love with the theater. I was always singing. I mean, there are videos of me in in the cradle with music on and me just bobbing my body, right? So music's always been a part of my life. So I always knew that was gonna be something with music. So when I went to school and stuff, I was always up for the school plays and I was there for it.

Robin: 17:00

So this, and, and I'm sorry, is this interesting too, because. I see a difference and I'm curious what you think if there is a difference. Your grandmother did theater as an escape to vent, you know, emotions, both positive, negative, like you said, my mother, not my grandmother. My mother. Oh, your your mother. Your mother. I'm sorry. And, and because, and because your grandparents' house as you grew up in, I apologize. Yeah, that's alright. And but your passion for. Seems to be different because you didn't have that same need to escape. What do you think your passion for it was?

Pascalle: 17:33

My passion was just telling stories I liked. I didn't need to escape because, you know, it was hard to express feelings cause that was a problem, but I liked. Exploring. I liked exploring, huh? This person makes this choice in, in a play, right? We have Cinderella who goes to the ball? Why does she wanna go there? Right? Okay. She wants to meet a prince, but what else? What else is there? Because she can't get it right. She's not allowed to go by her stepmother and her sisters. What does that do to a person? I've always been curious. How things feel. How does that feel? So whenever I've read a script or I've played a character, I've literally sat down on the couch and gone, why do they feel like that? And how does that feel? How would that make me feel? And I think being able to completely submerge yourself into another person's mind, body, skin, heart, that was really interesting for me. And I think because of the way how I grew up. I was able to do that because I had the freedom to do that. Oh gosh. So even if I played, oh gosh, a bad person. Yeah. Even if I played a bad person, I had to find a way why they think what they're doing is great. Because if you think about it, a villain is not a villain in their heads. That in their heads, oh sure. They're a hero. Right. So finding that part of yourself, that was really interesting for me.

Robin: 18:55

What's interesting, and I'm curious what you think about this if, if this is accurate because. You didn't need to expend energy and resources to feel safe like some people do, and why they chose different things to do in life because you felt safe. You were able to dive deeper, quicker, and earlier in life. Yeah.

Pascalle: 19:16

Yeah, absolutely. And I think having that safety, because I also knew that if I went too far or too deep, there was this safety net. Yeah. I could lean into that and just be like, okay, I can just try things out. And it was having that safety of being able to just try. Yeah. And fail. Right. It's, that's what acting is. It's trying and failing all the time, and then at some point you just got it and you're like, oh, okay. Oh, this is what it is. That journey. Is it, I mean, you get to know yourself really well, but it also makes you more aware of other people. Yeah, and most of my characters that I've ever played are definitely a part of me, but I've used other people to go, oh, you walk like that. This is how that character walks. Like I know a lot of sitting on benches and just looking at people and how they walk, how they talk, how they stand. Like tho those things are, they're so incredibly exciting to watch cuz it tells you so

Robin: 20:10

much about. Because your curiosity when you were younger never got snuffed.

Pascalle: 20:14

No. That, that's still there. Like I still do that. I'm always analyzing characters and finding characters in other people and I think it's, it's a really powerful tool to be able to do because it helps you navigate situations with other people.

Robin: 20:30

All right, so here we are. We're in high school. We're getting ready to move. What's next?

Pascalle: 20:36

Well, high school was, it was an interesting time cause I think it is for most people. I mean, you know, your hormones and insecurities and I was, you know, a bit of a, a weirded person in school. As other people describe me, I didn't describe,

Robin: 20:51

describe weird.

Pascalle: 20:52

Yeah, that's, well, I, I'm still waiting for that description because in my, nothing is ever weird. Things are only ever curious or special, but n never weird. But I, obviously, I was a theater girl, so I was always wearing bright colors, which I still do. I was wearing a lot of like I used to wear like a flower in my hair or whatever, and I just kept bullied for it so much because I wasn't fitting in and I don't think I've ever fit in. Either,

Robin: 21:19

what were you not, and I, I'm so sorry. I keep interrupting you. What do you think you weren't fitting in with? Because that, to me looks like positive energy coming out. What weren't you fitting in with?

Pascalle: 21:29

I didn't fit in with, I don't know, I don't know how you would describe it, but I think so many people were struggling with who they were, and I've never struggled with that. Right. I've always known who I am as a person, right? Cause then obviously you've changed through life, but in the basics, I've never changed. At all. So I think it was that confidence that people hated cause they were like, you have something we can't have because of whatever was going on in their lives. And instead of celebrating that, we're gonna put that down. Which is something that, you know, teens do this if you have something they don't have, they're they. Hate you for it. And I got bullied pretty severely because I was always singing and I had, there weren't a lot of girls who wanted to go into musical theater, but you know, weren't good enough or weren't confident enough to do that. Cuz you need to have a certain conscience and up on a stage and to go listen to me. Right. So I think. They struggled so much with their own thing. And it also, it impacted me like of course, like I was being called alien head for example, because I had quite a high forehead and big blue eyes and I looked a bit different. I've been this tall, which is five eight by the way since I was about 13, so I was quite lanky. So I get why they were just trying to find things. But I think the real thing that they were trying to say is, You are so confident we can't have that because we're all struggling to find out who we are and you already know. And I think they couldn't, they couldn't deal with that. So because I was acting at the same time, and because I had such a clear sense of who I was in the direction I wanted to take, it was very easy to just go. You know, just put it over my shoulder and not listen to it. Right. So it didn't impact me that much. Like I was bullied very, very badly. Like I've had peanut butters smeared in my hair. I've had people call me names, I've, I've, I've death threats, but I never did much with it. I mean, the death threat was sort of the, the brink of, of everything. It was like a last drop in the bucket. It's when I called my mom and she actually came to. So I remember her coming in, she was wearing this green coat and she just went into the classroom and I was like, you need to learn to respect people that you don't like. My daughter is fine. The fact that you're wishing someone dead says so much about you. And people. That's when the bullying got even worse cuz, oh, I called my mom. But I was like, no, this person is there for me. Like how many kids would call their mom, right? How many teenage kids to solve their problem. But I didn't see it as solving a problem. I just needed someone to tell this person to stop saying those horrible things. And I think so many kids were like, holy shit. My mom wouldn't do that. And my mom did. And to this day, I'm so freaking proud that my mom. Came in and did that for me, cuz it showed me, again in my teenage years that they always backed me. Yeah, and that feeling of trust, I mean, we're talking about forged by trust here, but that feeling of trust makes you invincible.

Robin: 24:41

It does. She made you feel so safe no matter what.

Pascalle: 24:44

Yeah. Yeah. Really no matter what. And when you look at acting or presenting or just being human. Yeah. That vulnerability getting there, you need to have that sense of trust in order to get there. That is why other way

Robin: 24:58

around. That's why you are so phenomenally brave in all you do. Yeah, because one of the things I was gonna highlight as well, and I'll do it right now, you bring forward one of the greatest challenging dichotomies for success in life, and that is confidence with humility. Yeah. Yes. And when you can keep those two in balance. The world keeps opening up before you. And to do that requires bravery. And that's what you are exempting. I mean, exuding so phenomenally. Well, thank you. So what was next? That's a, that's a powerful ex. That's a powerful. Situation in life that you went through? What was

Pascalle: 25:38

next? Yeah, next was I moved to Amsterdam, so I, like I said, small town girl and I couldn't wait to get out of there cuz I wanted to go to a place where nobody knew me at this time. My sister got very famous, which was amazing and I loved that for her. But I, I became the sister of, and I didn't, That I wasn't my own person anymore. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to get away from all of it. So I moved to Amsterdam, went to the F S A, which is the Frank Sanders Academy, which is a drama school. And I have to say that was some of the best years of my life. What made them, what,

Robin: 26:13

what made them the best?

Pascalle: 26:14

Yeah, because I again, found this sense of safety, but with other people and for the first time alone, right? My whole life, I'd been sort of get saved by my parents and I had them to fall back on. When you move two hours away, Suddenly it's like, oh, I have to do everything alone. And I remember the first months I only lived on sausage and tomato soup. Cause I didn't know, you know, I couldn't comprehend cooking for myself and it just was all very overwhelming. But I went to school every day. And drama school is interesting because how do you. Acting. How do you grade dancing? You can't do a a plus pirouette, you do a pirouette or you don't do a pirouette. And I got to challenge myself. And in drama school they ask you a lot of interesting questions. You know, you have to sing a song and then they do. Acting through song is one of the classes we had to take. And you sing a song and you think you've acted it really well, especially if it's like a really dramatic song. You're like, oh, well, well done. You know, tap on the shoulder. And then they start asking you question. And I go, well, why do you think this person is thinking this? And why do you think they have to say it right now? And you're like and you start talking and suddenly you have to go into this part of yourself that is so breakable that if you're like, if I share this with you right now, I'm never gonna stop crying. And that happened a couple of times where you shared something and you were like I think they think this because of this, because I have experienced this. Or I can imagine experiencing this and it breaks you. That little tiny heart of ours that is so very breakable. That sense of safety needs to be protected. So you need to learn the difference between private and personal safety. Personal safety is interesting and that's where you can keep the lid on. Private safety is something you can only share with yourself and the people who are directly linked to you. So your parents, maybe your brother or sister, and your partner that's. That's, that's really it because those are the people that can help you to protect that. The rest of the people are too far away from you in order to do that. So asking those questions was interesting and you learn to protect it while still showing it, but you have a little, not like a gate in front of it, but like, Just a very see through curtain. Absolutely. So that you can stand, they can still see you and they see what you mean, but you need to protect that part of yourself while still being able to share it. And we also had a class called B T C, which is all about movement and music. Not in dancing, but like they ask you to be. Do gold, do green, and you're like, what? You, I'm okay. And be purple. And you're like, okay. Which is very confronting because they make you do it in front of a mirror, which means if someone asks you do green and they turn on the music, and you're like, yeah, okay. There is no right or wrong. So how do you do green? So I can only do green, what green means to me, right? So I'm think trees, plants, I'm thinking oxygen because trees give us oxygen. Or some people might think blue is oxygen and you just start moving. But because I'd been bullied and because I'd always felt that my body wasn't. Great at moving, and I had to do this in front of a mirror. I saw everything that was wrong, which again, that tiny heart of ours, that sense of security was completely breached, completely. So, and you have people watching you whilst you do this. So that was pretty intense and I think I cried every time. And then one day we did this class in this, in this Thing where it's called arm, head arm and you had to walk on a straight line, and then you had to either pull your arm out to one side, your head to another side, and then your arm again to another side, and you had to keep moving like that. Almost like vogue. That's very, very hard because humans are not meant to move that way. Right, right. And watching yourself do that, criticizing yourself. I broke, like, I think I cried for three days straight. Like I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, I broke. And when I stopped crying, my teacher went, he got the whole school together, so this was like 150 people. And he put on the music and he is like, now do it again. And I just looked at him like, are you crazy? He's like, I know you can do this. You need to know, you can do. So I stood on the line and I walked without crying and I did it. It wasn't perfect. It was never about it being perfect. It was about me looking me in the eye and going, we're gonna do this. And that's the first time. This was two and a half years into my train where I felt I can, trust me, I don't need anyone else. Obviously it's nice, but I got that feeling that my parents have and have given to me. Now I could give it to myself. And that was the moment I think, where I became me, who I am today. And I Thanks to that really strange exercise.

Robin: 31:24

Yeah. It wasn't that it was gonna be something though. You were ready, you were primed so well

Pascalle: 31:29

Yeah. And that it was beautiful. It

Robin: 31:31

really was. Yeah. It sounds beautiful. Yeah. So what, so what was next?

Pascalle: 31:36

Next I wanted more. So I, you know, did couple shows in Holland, which were very cool. But I felt that. It could be better. Frankly, not to say that the Dutch actors aren't great, but I just felt if there was something better out there and I wanted to reach more people, and the Netherlands is a tiny country with, you know, not that many people. And then I heard of the West End. And I remember when I was 14, I went to the UK and I said to my mom, this is where I'm gonna live. This was my place. Like London is for actors, it's for artistic people. So I signed up to the Guildford School of Acting. I was the youngest person ever. The school. Say it again for me.

Robin: 32:16

Guildford School of Acting Guildford.

Pascalle: 32:18

Okay. Thank you. S a. And I was the youngest person ever to be able to be entered into the master program. How? I was 20. Okay. So I started my masters at 20 in musical theater. And again, this was a year of learning and I remember being quite homesick. I was very far away from home. I was in a different country. And I just remember sitting in the car of, you know, Towards here. And I just remember thinking, what if I'm not funny in English? That was my main worry. And I wasn't funny in English for the first couple of months because I'd never spoken English. I had to learn that language here whilst doing my degree and making friends Wow. And doing all that stuff. So I was like, oh, this is, this is hard. You know, I'd heard English and I spoke basic English. Speaking it and speaking it is a, you know, those are two very different things. So I just was like, what if I'm not funny? What if I'm not funny? Because I identified as someone who made people smile and I thought that had to do with laughter and fun. It doesn't, I make people smile all the time, not by being funny, but just by being me. And I had to learn that through not being able to communicate with words. So what

Robin: 33:31

about you makes people smile?

Pascalle: 33:33

I think. Well, that's probably different for everyone, but I think I have a certain sense of I deserve to be here and I know that I deserve to be here. And I think that makes people smile because it's a nice thing to be around someone who knows who they are. I'm, I've personally, I think I'm a very grounded person and I know what I wanna do and people like being around that they, they like, again, I'm very open, I'm very forgiving. I think I'm a safe haven for people to be around, no matter if we're just talking about the weather or if we're talking about, you know, live speak questions, which I don't have the answer to by the way. I think it's that feeling of people going, oh, I can hold onto you for a bit and feel safe and feel powerful in my own way. I think that's interesting

Robin: 34:21

to people. Absolutely. Keep going.

Pascalle: 34:25

Yeah. So yeah, GSA was great. I learned a lot and then I was asked to audition for Wicked, which is a big show in the uk. Yeah. Very, very cool. Did all of that. And then I got very sick.

Robin: 34:38

So tell me about Wicked for one second. What did you play in Wicked?

Pascalle: 34:42

It was for Alphabet.

Robin: 34:43

Oh wow.

Pascalle: 34:44

The big girl. Yeah, like the big, the big green girl. It was very cool. And I remember going back to my bachelor's school in Amsterdam and they got so excited. They were like, oh, you need to speak to all of our first years, and they need to see how great you've become. And I'm like, well, that's not really what it's about. Okay, so let,

Robin: 34:59

let's talk about this for one second before we hit the, the super challenge in your life. Yes. This is always phenomenal to me because. There are a lot, a lot of people trying to do what you were successful in doing. Yes. And yes, it requires talent, requires skills, which you have, but a lot of people have that. Yeah. Why you, what made them wanna select you for that position, do you think?

Pascalle: 35:26

Because that was my part, and there no way anybody is gonna take that from

Robin: 35:32

me. Remember, there's the confidence with humility right there.

Pascalle: 35:36

I mean, yeah. But in, in musical theater, there are so many girls who can do what I can do probably better, but, well, no, not probably. I know they can do it better than me, but what they can't do is be me. And I've, you know, auditioning is a skill on its. And the reason I got Wicked we had audition training at school and I was like, this guy directs wicked. I need to impress his bloke. So I came in with a song from Wicked and he went through my book. He was like, I don't want you to sing a song from Wicked. I'm not interested in that. And he went through the book and then he saw let It Go From Frozen. And he said to me, you do know you're not allowed to have songs in your repertoire that you can't sing. So I said, I know. And I just looked him dead in the face and he is. Okay, well then I want you to sing this. Mind you, I'd not prepared this song. I didn't know the song in English. I'd heard it once or twice. So I was like, oh, I'm rolly, you know, this is a problem. Cuz I just said I could do this. And the piano starts playing and it starts writing that big, you know, loud,

Robin: 36:43

right.

Pascalle: 36:45

Okay, I'm just gonna do this. And all I remember, like I'm good at remembering lyrics luckily, so I figured out it's, the song is Let it Go. I'm just gonna say that word many time. That's what I'm gonna do. And I sang it half in Dutch with an English accent, which then made didn't, they didn't realize I wasn't singing English, and I just figured play the part. I had to let go of so many things in order to be where I am today. That's what I'm singing about. And I did. And he was like, how old are you? And I said, I'm turning 21 in two days cuz it was two days before my birthday. He was like, well, you're too young for Wicked. I was like, I don't care. I was like, I need this part. He's like, okay, but you can come in for auditions. And I did. And well, it went really well. So that was. Probably the moment I realized I was good enough for this job and people say, wow, you were good enough before that, cuz you've done many cool parts. I'm like, yeah, but this was the part, this was the part where I was like, if I, if once I get this, I can retire because that's all I wanted to do. I remember seeing it the first time when I turned 16 and I cried so hard. I identified with this character so much. Yeah. Like she was not understood. She didn't fit in, but still she knew what she wanted out of life. And I was like, yes, yes. Someone understands me. And playing that role was I could be me in a character. Yeah. Wow. And that was very powerful.

Robin: 38:19

How long did you play it?

Pascalle: 38:21

Not very long. I leave for a couple months because I was still going to school. I still doing my masters, right? So so I was like doing my masters' during the day doing the show in the evening. So not, not very long. Couple months and did it in like a dual capacity. But I got to do it, and that's all that matters.

Robin: 38:38

That's amazing. Absolutely amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So what was next?

Pascalle: 38:42

Well, I I had a stroke. So, and how that, and how'd that happen? Well, to this day, I couldn't tell you. They think it's got something to do with extreme exhaustion, which I wouldn't be surprised by. Cuz when you do what I did and you're basically being an athlete, but you're not looking after yourself, there is no time for food or drinking enough water. And there is no time to calm down because I was still at an age where I had to learn. It wasn't my responsibility to take care of the audience all the way through. Right? There was this like, okay, they wanna hear that money note, right? The big, ah, right. I need to do that every night because that's what they paid for. They didn't, they paid for the whole experience and I had a whole cast doing that with me. But I felt it was my responsibility as the lead to do that. And I had to learn. You can't take on that kind of responsibility on your own. So I think the stress and the, the pressure that's on you when you're the youngest in your master program and the youngest doing this role, yeah, the pressure is on and you are doing eight shows a week. You're going to, to school, you are just exhausted. You're not sleeping. Oh my god. Enough. So. Yeah, I, I moved back to the Netherlands.

Robin: 39:56

If you don't mind sharing, what was that like having a stroke? Did you. Wake up with it, were you paralyzed? Did someone find you? I mean, how'd that all happen if you were

Pascalle: 40:03

sharing? Yeah. No, no, I don't mind sharing at all. It's, it's not a, it's not a big secret. I remember waking up and I was about to go to work and I was blow dry my hair and I do that upside down cause that's where I know how to, and I whip my head forward. And I just remember hearing like a really weird sound in my head and like something. And I thought, thought, thought it was my neck. Cuz it got really warm. And then I came back up and my eye was droopy and I was like, huh, strange. You don't think stroke when this happens? It doesn't hurt necessarily. And then I couldn't speak properly, so I was like, oh, hmm, okay. Again, did not think of a stroke because I was 22 years old. Right, right. And then I went to Amy. And at Amy, they remembered a nurse sitting at the desk and she looked up and she just didn't even take my name. She didn't say anything. She was like, she picked up this phone. Within five minutes I was hooked up to all these machines. I was, you know, ridden into ct. And so how'd you get there? To the hospital. Yeah. I, at the time I was with an ex-boyfriend and he helped me get there. Okay.

Robin: 41:11

So that, that's what we

Pascalle: 41:13

did. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He's like, well, let's get you into a need. This doesn't look right. We thought it was an eye problem. Then we thought, oh, maybe like a facial migraine or something. Like they, you come up with the weirdest diagnosis, for example. And I just remember the doctor after CT and everything where they put this contrast in your veins, which makes you feel really strange. And I remember panicking and over the intercom. They went, miss, just calm down. And I shouted really loud. You calm down because you've no idea what's going on. And they don't tell you because they need to just action it. That's all they can do in that moment. They can't stop to explain. Once everything calmed down a bit, the doctor came open to my bed and he was poking me in the face. Apparently. I don't know this because I can't see this part of my face. Like my left quadrant had fallen out completely. And I just remember my ex sitting in the corner and his face going, uhoh. And I was like, what's going on? He's like, you don't feel that? And I was like, no. He's like, well, they're poking your face with a needle. And they do that to make sure you're not faking it. Apparently you can fake a stroke. So the doctor's like, well, we think you had a t i A that developed into a stroke. We're gonna monitor, monitor you now. So I got blood thinners and within 24 hours my eye was open, so it was completely back to normal. So they were like, cool, we have a chance of full recovery here. And what follows is months of. Months of why me? Right? Because you start feeling very sorry for yourself. And months of what now because. What are you gonna do career over? There's no way I was ever gonna get back on stage after that. So I started looking for different jobs and I'd been a receptionist before, like during summers you know, when there were no shows and when I was studying just to get by. So I started doing that and I had to start from ground zero because I felt useless.

Robin: 43:13

So up until this point, you've never experienced being a victim in a mindset?

Pascalle: 43:19

No. I have no idea what that felt like.

Robin: 43:22

And then, and you just said it, you hit the why me, which you hit the victim mindset. Mm-hmm. How'd you get yourself out of that? That's a real challenge.

Pascalle: 43:29

Yeah. I am a very stubborn person. Very stubborn. I was like, there's no way in hell that I'm gonna feel sorry for myself the rest of my life. So I didn't care what I had to do. I was like, as long as I keep going forward, I don't need to make mega strides, which I'd done all my life. I'd always taken big leaps.

Robin: 43:52

Yeah, no kidding.

Pascalle: 43:54

Yeah, right. Just small steps. One foot in front of the mirror. And I did. So I just, I, I just remember being really worried what my life was gonna look like because I felt like I had no useful accreditations because I'd never done. Maths? Not really. I, you know, was exempted from all of that stuff. Because I was doing shows as a kid, I'd never done any science or biology. Like I, I didn't do that. I did languages cuz I'm good at languages. That's about it. That's what I did in school. And I missed the last two years of high school because I didn't go to school because of the bullying. So I did my exams still. Hmm. It wasn't, it wasn't a real thing. We call it the fun packet. In Holland you can choose which subjects you have, and I had none of the, the, the brainy things in there. So I was incredibly worried about what my life was gonna turn out like, and I was like, I'm gonna need to find a very rich husband. That was so safe to say I left my ex. You know, I stayed at home in the Netherlands and just being, look, looking after myself. I had an amazing group of friends that took care of me and they helped me get back into ballet and jazz. What, yeah.

Robin: 45:06

What did they do to take

Pascalle: 45:07

care of you? They just listened. That's what they did. They listened and they knew I, I didn't need someone telling me, oh, just, just get up and do it. I needed people to just listen. And they did and they took me back to ballet glasses, which was amazing cuz I love doing that, but couldn't move properly after that. So they were so very patient with me and they showed me that they still liked me, even if I was very vulnerable and very weak. Because that, you know, I always thought that they liked me because of who I am. You know, as a person, oh, you're such a strong woman, great, but do you also like the vulnerable part of me? And this is when I learned to show it and share it in a greater capacity with the world. And. Guess what? They liked it. So they stayed and we're still friends today. And they, they were absolutely wonderful in that time for me. And until I obviously decided to move back to the uk because I, this felt like home. This was where I wanted to build up my life. And I think I also kind of wanted to get away from the Netherlands where all that negativity had happened. Mm-hmm. So I went back, I got a job in finance. Don't ask me how it was completely by mistake. Yeah, and I just started working my way up. But giving up was never an option ever.

Robin: 46:28

Wow. Yeah. So what got us into storytelling? Yeah.

Pascalle: 46:32

Well, I saw all these people presenting especially when I worked in finance and tech. I saw these people presenting and I just thought, this is so boring and no. And I, I was like, there's no, I don't see you, so I can't connect with you as a person. Which means I can't connect with whatever you're trying to tell me. Right? And what you're trying to tell me is pure technical, right? People focus on the product or the numbers and I'm like, I don't give, you know, I don't give. Anything. Hey. Yeah, exactly. I was like, this is not interesting. What's interesting is how, why you are talking about this, why aren't we talking about that? And I started thinking, and you know, I, I got involved with a wellbeing committee. Because I needed to do something cuz they were just constantly talking about bonds and equity. And I was like, I don't understand what you're talking about, but this Wellbeing committee seems interesting cuz I know about that

Robin: 47:28

stuff. The The what? Committee?

Pascalle: 47:29

Wellbeing. A Wellbeing Committee. Okay. So it was part of a D N I thing that they were doing and they had a A parents committee and the had of wellbeing committee and whatever, and I decided to take over the wellbeing Committee because being ex musical theater, I knew a thing or two about taking care of yourself, not taking care of yourself. And I wanted, I saw all these people just sitting at their desk looking at their screen, and they looked so unhappy. I was like, what are you doing? Like, oh, you know, I, I just survived this terrible thing. I was like, why? What's going on? So, I wanted to break the tab on mental health. That's actually where it started for me. I was like, well, let's start talking about this thing that we're all doing. We're all on this, on this train. That just keeps moving. And you guys have just accepted your faith. Right? Right. And it doesn't need to be this train. It can be a different train if you wanted to be. So I started talking about mental health. I started talking about lots of things that they'd never spoken about out loud, and I got notice. Very quickly by the c e o of the company, by my manager and like everybody in senior management, they're like, Hey, you're different. I was like, yeah, it's not hard. Everybody here is the same. Right? They were all just so unaware and they were just living and I, they weren't living. Right. Right. So They're like, you're good at at explaining things. You're good at telling stories. How would you feel about doing that to clients? And I went, no, because I don't know anything about finance. And they're like, well, we can teach you about finance. We can't teach you to be you. I was like, okay, I'll give it a go. So I studied for my investment management certificate, which is, you know, sort of economics 1 0 1. Right. I'm very mathematical and I remember sitting there and I asked, and what's, what's a square root? Because I thought this was, Something they said in the Big Bang theory to sound smart. I didn't understand it was a real thing. Because if you've never learned about it, you don't, you don't know, right? So I felt so stupid and lots of people laughed at me, but they also liked that I asked those questions because they're like, holy shit, we, we don't understand how it works. But we're definitely not gonna ask this question because that we look dumb. And I was like, I don't care if I look dumb, I need do

Robin: 49:41

test. And you're also brave. You've always been brave. Exactly.

Pascalle: 49:45

And I was like, I don't, I don't care. Like I know who I am, so if you think I'm dumb, that's fine. And I think not caring about what other people think really helped in that. So they taught me everything there was know about the products that they sold. And I started talking to people and I started presenting. And that went really well. I got requested all the time to do all these really complex presentations that I didn't understand a single word off to this day, I can't, I can't tell you because I, it didn't, I didn't care about that, right? So I spoke about me, why I was there, and why this was interesting to them. So we didn't discuss the numbers. Cuz I couldn't talk to them about the numbers. Right. I don't know the words that they, these people use.

Robin: 50:26

You, you were demonstrating the epitome of you're not selling a product, you're always selling you

Pascalle: 50:32

to this day, can't tell you what they do. And my partner actually still wor, still works there, which is terrible. And yeah, I just, I just sold the. I sold my why. I sold, I took them by the hand and took them on the story I wanted to tell. And I felt like we weren't doing that enough. So I, you know, I tried the tech industry, tried the media industry, and then I decided I'm gonna teach people to do that because not only does it make your listener feel great, it makes you feel great because you get to get up on a stage and share your truth. And that's so powerful, right? To be able to share how you look at. And your why, whatever that may be. That's so powerful to be able to get the time of day to share that. How often do you get to do that? Not

Robin: 51:20

very often. So, absolutely. So what are a few things that people can start doing to start preparing themselves to share that truth?

Pascalle: 51:28

I think finding your vulnerability. And sharing that. I mean, that's, that

Robin: 51:34

takes a lot of bravery. How does someone do that? What's, yeah. So, so let's talk about that for a second. That takes, that's so brave. First you gotta, you gotta be brave enough to find it, then you gotta be brave enough to share it. Yeah. What's the best way someone should start doing that you think? Getting

Pascalle: 51:48

out of your conference zone, you have to get out. I know it's such a cliche. You have to start doing things that you wouldn't normally do. And I

Robin: 51:56

use an example of one go bungee

Pascalle: 51:59

jumping. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. But what will happen in that moment? Yeah. Once you jump off that cliff, your truest self will come out because it just overwhelms you, which means the emotions take. And that's as true as you can be. And if you can share that with people, I don't mean screaming in front of an audience, but if you can share that openness of this is who I am, people will want to listen to what you have to say because not analogy do that. So yeah, definitely go bungee jumping. It works. Or some people like go to like a improv. That's terrifying. I, to this day, find that stuff terrifying. I studied that. So yeah, it's, it's whatever makes you feel uncomfortable and then be comfortable feeling uncomfortable.

Robin: 52:48

That's beautiful. Anything else?

Pascalle: 52:50

I would invite people to. Really ask the hard questions about their why. Like, why are you telling this? Oh, because I wanna make the sale. Mm. Wrong answer. Why do people need to hear this? Start thinking about them. Right? A lot of people get up on stage and they talk about what they think is right. And what they think they're gonna get out of it. Ask your audience. How often do you talk in front of an audience and have you met with some of the people beforehand? What are you, what are you trying to get out of this session? Nobody does that, but if you don't know what people want from you, how can you prepare? But then you're speaking your truth. Great. But that's a very arrogant way of thinking that they want to hear what you think you should share. Share what they want to hear. So what I do when I am invited to speak anywhere, I go through the ET andee list or I ask the organizer for the ET andee list and I just pick four or five people and I just send them a friendly message like, hi. Hey, you know, you know, you have four to five people in the audience who are like, Hey, a friendly face. But also you have some people in there who you know what they want, which is most likely what the rest of the audience is trying to get out of, right? So you can change your narrative and your thinking around that. So that also takes away a lot of nerves because most of the times you get up there, oh, what if they don't like it? Why aren't they taking notes? Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. All these thought. They disappear because you know that what you're saying is interesting to them cuz they've said that's what they want to hear. That's what I mean with when we talk about how to serve like the title of this episode, I always say serve at the pleasure of the audience. Right? That's what you need to do. And that's all vulnerability. It's about asking them what they want and giving it to them. It is that simple. It is. It doesn't need to be that complicated.

Robin: 54:40

Miss Scally, I could sit here and listen to you all day. You have such deep, beautiful life lessons. What are a few things that I should have asked you that I didn't ask you that he wanted to make sure you. If anything, I

Pascalle: 54:53

want to invite people to just be more brave because the worst thing that can happen is that you didn't do it. That's the worst that can happen. That's a great invitation. Yeah. Like, just, just, just do it like, like Nike says. Do it and just try it. And even if it's just dipping your toe in the water, but invite yourself and allow yourself, right? It's, it's allowing yourself to be that brave to say, this is who I am, this is what I do, and this is what I'm here for. That is so incredibly important, and once you know the answers to those questions and you've really thought about them, share it. Share it with whoever wants to hear it. Don't put it on them. Don't pressure them to listen to you. Just share. Right. And just be open for that and be more forgiving. Be nicer to each other.

Robin: 55:45

Beautiful and perfect. Ms. Golly, where can people go to bring you into their lives?

Pascalle: 55:50

Yeah. Well, many, many different ways. I think the best way is through LinkedIn. People can find me on Pascals Bergman's and that's my name. Or they can go to present tales that's, you know, also on LinkedIn or they can go to www.presenttales.com.

Robin: 56:05

All in the show notes. As always, everyone, of course, pos. Pascals, thank you so much for coming on, being brave and sharing the most amazing life lessons you've been through and passed on to us. So thank you

Pascalle: 56:18

so much. Thank you so much for having.

Robin: 56:21

Thank you for tuning into another episode of Forged By Trust. Remember, if you want to forge trust, it's not how you make people feel about you that matters. It's how you make them feel about themselves. If you're interested in more information about how I can help you forge your own trust, building communication, and interpersonal strategies as your speaker coach, a trusted advisor for you or your organization, Please visit my website@www.peopleformula.com. I'm looking forward to sharing my next Forge by Trust episode with you next week when we do a deep dive into how to build a story with Dan Manning.