Naked Leadership w/ Adrian Koehler

🌟 Naked Leadership

🤔 Our Egos don’t take us anyplace meaningful and can often give us a victim mindset. But choosing courage over confidence can make all the difference. Therefore, tune into this compelling episode and discover how Leadership Expert Adrian Koehler shows you how to speak and listen for unprecedented results. 

🌟 What We Discuss with Adrian:

👉 ⁃       Choosing Courage Over Confidence

👉 ⁃       Loving and Thriving in Chaos

👉 ⁃       From a Victim to a Responsible Mindset

👉 ⁃       Calling People to Courageous Action

👉 ⁃       Speaking and Listening for Unprecedented Results 

 
🌟 About Adrian:

Adrian Koehler is a leadership engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm, Take New Ground. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work.

 He is the co-host of an engaging podcast The Naked Leadership Podcast with TNG Sr Partner Dan Tocchini.

 
🙏 Thanks, Adrian! Reach out, connect, and follow Adrian across all his social platforms:

👉 -       https://www.linkedin.com/in/adriankoehler/

 
🌟 Resources Mentioned in the Podcast: 

👉 -       To get immediate insight and new strategies, go to negotiation.takenewground.com and find out your negotiation style right now!

👉 -       https://takenewground.com

Pre-Order my Latest Book: "Unbreakable Alliances: A Spy Recruiters Authoritative Guide to Cultivating Powerful & Lasting Connections" HERE

Unlocking the Power of Trust: Keynote Speaker Robin Dreeke Shares Secrets to Creating Allies - Robin is the former Chief of the FBI's Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. With over 30 years of experience in recruiting spies and building trust, Robin is the world-renowned speaker you need. Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn from a true expert. Contact us now to book your event! Click HERE to book a time to chat.

🤔 Take Robin's FREE YouTube Keys to Communication Online Course HERE.

😃 Check out Robin's Speaking, and Training Services HERE.

Transcript

Robin: 0:04

Our egos don't take us any place meaningful and can often give us a victim mindset. But choosing courage over confidence can make all the difference. Therefore, tune into this compelling episode and discover how leadership expert Adrian Koehler shows you how to speak and listen for unprecedented results. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. I'm your host, Robin Dreeke, professional speaker, executive coach, former US Marine, spy recruiter, bestselling author, and your trust and communication expert. Coming up next on the Forged By Trust podcast.

Adrian: 0:34

If you call people into courageous action and get them to act out of their best, out of their best self instead of their kind of practiced mediocre self over time, it's like, okay, I'm actually this guy. I'm the, I'm that one. I'm not gonna go back to who I was before. And that's leadership transformation.

Robin: 0:51

Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. My name is Robin Dreeke, and I'm honored to be your host. I bring a wealth of experience and expertise to the table as an FBI spy recruiter, professional speaker, executive coach, former US marine bestselling author, and most importantly, your trust and communication expert. The Forged By Trust podcast is a show where we explore the essential skill of forging trust for building an innovative culture and exceptional leadership. Join us as we delve into the behavior, skills and communication techniques required for success and learn from the best in the industry. Our guests include spies, spy recruiters, master interrogators, bestselling authors, thought leaders, and innovators who will share their insights on building teams, partnerships, and exceptional leadership by forging Trust. As your host, a global behavior expert and master spy recruiter, I will guide you through the process of building authentic connections based on trust. Stop settling for less and learn how to master communication skills you need to move beyond transactional relationships and into mutually beneficial collaboration and partnerships. Whether you're a student entrepreneur, c-suite executive, or parent forging trust is the key to unlocking your potential. Today's episode, Naked Leadership is with my good friend Adrian Koehler. Adrian Koehler is a leadership engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm Take new ground. He coaches, executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. He is the co-host of the Engaging Podcast, the Naked Leadership Podcast with Take New Ground, senior partner, Dan Tocchini. During the episode today, we talk about choosing courage over confidence, loving and thriving in chaos, from a victim to a responsible mindset. Calling people to courageous action speaking and listening for unprecedented results. I, I'm almost speechless starting off. Adrian, all I can do is say thank you so much for entering my life and the audience's life and being part of the podcast, and welcome to

Adrian: 2:51

Forge by Trust. Oh, I'm so glad to be here, Robin. Thanks for having me, man. Getting to know

Robin: 2:57

you. Oh, and likewise, And the most profound thing we really do as human beings is make deep, deep connections. And it's the most challenging thing to do in our world. And I don't care about the. Your economic status, social status, whatever, orientation, all these different things of the world. It's very challenging for any human being to make a deep connection and have ultimate unwavering trust. Mm-hmm. And so I, I thought I'd just kick off our conversation with one question, and that is when you were a grown up. Those things we experience kind of forge and begin that thread that falls through us in life. And I'm just curious, what do you think it was when you were younger that kind of sparked that passion and that life's calling to make a human connection, to be of service to others and ultimately become the great coach that you are?

Adrian: 3:52

It's a great question, and I don't, I mean, I think the, the natural orientation of my work is all so future oriented and I don't do a lot of reflection on, on questions like this. So it's always refreshing to think about it. And the past is always a little bit mysterious, I think, as well. You know what got me into it? I, first off, I was crafted by two impeccable human beings. My parents, they today is actually their 49th anniversary today. Oh, that is beautiful. What a perfect timing, isn't it? It's, it is beautiful. And they're, they're wonderful humans, both of them. Public school teachers, both of them, you know, of service in the community. Both of them have a vibrant faith life and have been in service in the, in the, that ch the church context and whatever. Anyway, and I grew up small town America Southern. Where was that? Where'd you grow

Robin: 4:46

up,

Adrian: 4:46

Adrian? I grew up in Salem, Illinois, which is like 70 miles the east of St. Louis, Missouri. 8,000 people when everybody's home. You know, it's, and it was quaint. It was great. It was really great sports town. My dad was like the, the coach, the coach, teacher guy. So they, they taught, I mean, they've got quite the legacy. There's r there's not really a person in Salem that either ha wasn't taught by one of them or both of them. Or their kids, or their, even other grandkids were taught by, I mean, sometimes they would, they taught all three generation, they would teach three generations. Like they teach a kid when they first got started and then their kid and then their kids. So our point here is like what compelled me, I saw it in action number one. Both of my parents were about people and about service in the community. And how

Robin: 5:35

did that come about? I mean, what was their things that they crafted did usually word crafted. It's a beautiful word to talk about. Kind of an intentional way to go about

Adrian: 5:46

life. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what was going on for them before I came around, except for that they, you know, they just wanted to be teachers. They loved teaching. They loved investing in kids and dealing with, what did they teach? My mom taught fifth grade most of her career. And she was impeccable. Impeccable. As a teacher. Everybody's favorite teacher. If you went to their little, she would taught at a smaller rural school, they would. So,

Robin: 6:12

so what he made, what do you think made her so likable and beloved by the kids?

Adrian: 6:16

She l first off, she really loved the kids, like, loved them, like, and lo especially loved the troublemakers. I mean, she would put, you know any of these kids that were from tougher backgrounds and were squirrely. And or had broken families and then were squirrely, you know, cuz all that stuff's just symptoms, like kids acting out, it's just a symptom. So she would put them right next to her and she would just convince them, Hey, we're gonna be close friends now. And so that's part of it. Deep love, like really deep commitment to the kids. And then also she ran her classroom like she was a, you know, captain of a ship. Like you didn't, you didn't mess around. And in Ms. Taylor's class, so, And I remember I was probably 15 or 16. I went out to visit her. Maybe I was coming back from college. Actually, I haven't thought about this in a long time. I think I was actually coming back from college, so I was out. So I was probably 18 or 19. I came back to go visit her maybe surprise visitor school. And I heard her and I walked into the school and I heard her voice. And instead of going in, I just sat by the, by the door. The door was closed, but I could hear her and I just marveled in her presence in the classroom. Of Deep Command for, of course, you know the the curriculum and such, but Deep Command is a presence and then just love. And she was on the move and just flowed so well with the chaos of a fifth grade classroom. So she taught fifth grade and she was impeccable. My dad was a freshman history teacher. The most beloved teacher at the high school. Number one reason he never gave homework. Everybody loved that, but he was just a storyteller and he'd just talk all day long and tell stories and make everything really rel relevant and light and fun, and then tell you how to pass all the, the tests, and kind of got the fact that like the interaction is the point, not the test, the interaction around the content, around the ideas. That was the point. And so, and they just loved my dad had a, had a heart for the outsiders, always. Like he all the, you know, in some ways similar to my mom now that I'm thinking about it. Like they just, they, there's nobody that didn't love my dad.

Robin: 8:25

So this is really fascinating. These threads that start. In our lives start with their parents. Yeah. And there's a thread that started in their lives. What do you think was their spark to do this? Because they obviously had a lot of reps and, and the flow that you're talking about, about how your mother, you could hear her commanding and just maneuvering in that classroom. That sounds like it was something she was inspired to do as well. Where, how did she come to want to do that in your dad too? Well, I think.

Adrian: 8:58

I mean, my mom, very both of'em have a rich faith life. They do. And I think a lot of that comes from that, like making a difference with other people was core. My mom, it was sh it was truer for her at a much younger age around her own mission and life, which was to serve people, love people.

9:16

Where

Robin: 9:16

did she, where was her exposure to that? Where did that come from? Her

Adrian: 9:19

parents. She grew, she, yeah, she grew up in like a church environment, like pretty conservative Southern Baptist environment. And she was just convinced that like this narrative was the one that mattered the most. Like helping put the world back together, you know, like helping people. Everybody's messed up at some level and we all need something, and for her much more sense that that's a God conversation and that there's nobody too far from the love and the grace of God, and that, that, that was always really compelling to her. And she was also kind of the no BS person too. She'd shoots you straight. Like she wasn't like, everybody needs a hug. Some people need a slap upside the head. Right. You know, and she was a hard, she was the disciplinarian of the two of them, you know? Right. So she was, you know, to get that look off your face or all slap it off kind of person. You know and she was the tough lover of the two of them. So I, you know, and her, she was a mix of her parents, right? So her dad was the sweetest pie, you know he'd grow a garden just to give it all away, that type of guy. Wow. Simple guy, guy. One of eight kids in Raven, more rural Wow. Illinois. And her mom was tough. Her mom was like the strict one, the disciplinarian one as well. So I, I mean, she saw that and it worked for her. And very tied to her own kinda life mission. Right. And I think, you know, and I, and, and I'm a, I'm a pretty competitive person. I think, you know, both my parents are pretty competitive as well. I mean, in her little school there was like a two, there was two fourth grade classes and two sixth grade classes. But she'd take'em all, they'd, they'd put'em all under her. So it's probably a little bit of joy and like, Making, you know, being, you know, top of class. Sure.

Robin: 11:07

So here you are back then. You have these great role models, great role models that, that are, like you said, crafting you and crafting the world around them. So did you have any kind of spark or knowledge of a path you wanted to start walking back

Adrian: 11:20

then? Well, I knew that I was interested. I was naturally fascinated with how people work. Only because when I turned. I don't know, 15. I started asking a lot of questions that I didn't, I didn't have any, I didn't have a lot of people around me that seemed to be asking that I was just a, I was gonna say I was a troubled kid. I don't, I wasn't troubled in lots of maybe scary ways. I was just really curious and wanted to know how stuff worked. Like how does this work? Like, how do like relationships work? How do, hold on a second. Like, how does this thing and what am I supposed to do? And it's like always spinning with. Really inquiry, I guess, but also a little bit anxious about it, you know, on the inside, outside, you know, kept pretty poised, right? But internally, always really working something over and for whatever reason, like was troubled with how good something could get. Do you

Robin: 12:15

remember what that was? What the first relationship is that you were asking yourself that question on?

Adrian: 12:22

That's a fun question. I mean, I have a, this is something I've thought about in a long time. I remember being in sixth grade and sitting at a basketball game, and I don't remember the girl's name, but there was a girl sitting next to me that I wanted to talk to. And I'm just thinking, what do I say to a girl, right? What do I do? You know, and I remember my first. It was about that time I had my first girlfriend and I. They thought, oh, you talked to him on the phone. I would like sit there and have notes. Right, right. Total nerd ball. I'd make a list of topics to talk about and then I'd call her, her name was Rihanna, and I'd call her and we'd talk about these topics, you know, and it's like, what do I talk about? It's like the neighbors, the dog. My favorite food. Her favorite food. I'm just thinking, how is this, what you talk about is this, like you set an agenda for a six year old, or you know, or sorry, sixth sixth grader. Sixth grade. Conversation with a girlfriend. I you know, so around that time is when I. Started like getting anxious, I guess a teenage angst or whatever. Sure. And you know, my, and it was really internal for me, like, you know, my parents were phenomenal. There's a lot of this was going on behind the scenes for me and I think that's when I started studying and really started studying leadership at the time too, cuz I would just be. In any environment and just kind of naturally doing the math on, okay, who's, who's in charge here? How'd they get in charge? What do they do that keeps them in charge? Who should he not be in charge anymore? And then who, you know, I was always just thinking about group dynamics and no, I, my, my parents weren't sitting me down and teach me about group dynamics. I just found that fascinating and became interested in leadership in some ways, because I was always uncomfortable if a moment wasn't being led well. Hmm, like moments of chaos or moments of transition or, you know, moments of, of change or whatever, or moments of question or what, any way, anything that's going on. I was always paying attention to who's in charge, what should we be doing now? And then I realized early that whoever's in charge is, for the most part, appoints themselves. I mean, maybe it's a teacher student and that the teacher's in charge and the rest of the students, but who's the leader of the students who, you know, that's not a role somebody gives to you. That's a the role you choose for yourself. And I realize that practicing being a leader was always up for grabs. And the world needs team captains and you can either wait and be picked or you can just pick yourself. And so early in life I just started picking myself like, we're on the recess or we're doing whatever and we got 30 minutes to play basketball, and the best way to do this is to get set up in teams and we need two captains. I'm the first one, and then Tom, you're the second captain. Let's go. And then just, I saw, I found that that was a way to, in some ways deal with my internal angst on how do we make the most out of a moment, make the most out of an opportunity. There's gotta be a leader and might as well be me. Do you remember the first time you did it? That that first time I did it. Wow. Do I remember the first time I did it? Vivid memories of third grade. Wow. It's early. Yeah. Vivid memories of third grade, me and Nathan and Blake, and we just would set up, set up camp in the four square. We'd set up camp. And the three musketeers we call ourselves. I haven't thought about that in a long time, but how

Robin: 15:58

was, do you remember how the behavior was rewarded back then that kind of set it in you like, this is the way to work?

Adrian: 16:05

Yeah, well, I mean, we then in like, I don't know, adolescent vernacular, like we became the cool kids, right? I guess that was, I mean, whatever my parents were, I, I decent clothes and whatever, smart, blah, blah, blah. But you know, it people just became attracted to you because you've held something, you held influence and Right. And I, and people that w want to follow, if not lead and, you know, became this one of those guys that was like calling the shots and, and, and it then, I mean, a significant probably shift for me cause that's kind of like leadership. In action. Right? And I got how that worked and that there was also leadership in relationship. And at some point, pretty early, you're gonna ask me when the first time it was was. I'll think about that cuz I know the question that's coming after this, but at some point really early people started coming to me to talk about stuff. Or it's like away from the crowd they would have. Questions or have troubles or have challenges. And I just for, I didn't know it, why at the time I was just the guy, right. That people would come and talk to. And I, I don't know exactly when that started.

Robin: 17:24

What made you, what made them think that you were the guy? What were they seeing when

Adrian: 17:30

they saw you? I, I, I think I've had this aspect of myself where I tend to be really loving and accepting and. At the same point, pretty directive. Were you, you know, so kind of this, you curious,

Robin: 17:46

I'm sorry. Were you curious about them as well?

Adrian: 17:48

Yeah, like, and yeah. When I say loving and accepting, I'm just like, you can tell me anything and I'm, that's great. Like, I'm, I'm not gonna judge you and tell me how that works and why is it that way? And is it worse than that is you? Is it, tell, just go ahead and tell me if it's worse. It's okay. Like, you know, it's like safe space to let people be themselves. That was, you made him feel safe. Yeah. Made him feel safe. Like, Hey, it's, it's cool. Whatever. You gotta say, I'm your guy. Like, if, if you need to get something off your chest, get it off of me. It's cool, man. Right. And I usually ask the extra question that most people wouldn't, you know, it's like somebody says something and you know, revealing, you know, you know how this is anywhere in, in life. It's like when, when somebody says something real, people get nervous. Because they don't know what to do about that or feel like they need to fix it or feel like they, you know, or maybe it hits something deep within them that makes them uncomfortable and so they don't wanna talk about it. I would tend to like, ask a, ask a lot of follow up questions about how that works for them and hold on, you know, like get in, get into the details. Partially cuz I was really curious about me and about them and how that worked. And life was like a constant experiment to me. Of existence. Existence was a kind of fascinating game. But yeah, I think I made them feel really safe and I helped them make good choices. You know, like there's lots of parallels between what I do now, but help them really find out like what's authentic for them. Like, what do you really want, man? I know this is the pressure that's going on over here, but what do you want? I know your mom's saying that this as a kid, like, what? I know your mom's saying that. Or, you know, This guy's saying this, but what do you really want? Why don't you just do what you wanna do? You know, like that type of right. Ad advocacy for people. But yeah, that was like early especially I, I, you know, I grew up in that faith conversation and adopted that early just to socialized in that way probably. And then, you know, had my own early, early high school days, I was like, ah. Forget that and did the whole sex, drugs, rock and roll thing that most high schoolers do and some people never stop doing. But I, that didn't satisfy me. Like the whole, like planning new ways to escape, they didn't really satisfy me. And then I came back to a really authentic faith pursuit, but it wasn't very religious right? Meaning would read the old scriptures and stuff and really try to get the themes of it and then go practice being that theme. Instead of like memorizing and being the smart guy or being some dogmatic religious dude, I never was interested in that. I was interested in the way of being of these, you know ancient patterns of thought and behavior and language that actually helped you generate a lot of life inside and outside. So, mid, mid-high school, I'd already done the whole sex, drugs, rock and roll thing, decided to give that up, but I was still part of the in crowd. So I'd go to all the parties and I just wouldn't drink. Right. And then I'd just be the guy hanging out in the kitchen cuz that's where everybody goes at a party. I'd hang out in the kitchen and I'd just talk to people and we'd, I'd sit and talk to, you know, somebody for two hours at a party around life stuff. And I loved it. I loved it cuz it's like, oh, these folks are, I mean, we're all having a good time and I'm having a great time and we're all dying to have another deeper conversation. And there was always, you know, in my family, I was always like the deep one, which wasn't like a term of endearment. It was like a, Hey man, why don't you just relax and why don't we just watch Wheel of Fortune? But I, I always wanted to talk about the deep stuff, you know? Right. I put that in quotes deep. It's like, for me it's like fun stuff. Like, let's get, let's get beyond the surface and talk about what's really going on, because I've got a lot of thoughts and got a lot of questions and got a lot of. You know, pain and whatever and figuring this out and I've got lots of passions and pursuits and can we just talk about that instead of what happened in the Rams game? And so anyway, that really mid-high school was when that started to concrete for me that I just kind of liked the deep end. Was there a

Robin: 21:52

defining time or maybe there wasn't that you went from. Kind of that it sounded almost like social anxiety from not quite sure how to talk to a girl or someone else to the supreme confidence. I don't know if you felt confident at the time, but this, we'll call it a, a more of a, an ability to communicate like you were in these situations.

Adrian: 22:15

Yeah. I mean it became, it definitely became a practice for me where in the most environments I just. Decided to step out. And so, you know, so I would, and still to this day, I just, I bank on courage over confidence every day. So, cuz for me, confidence, confidence is roi. Like, you know, But if you take, what's accessible always is courage. And that just takes guts. And do I have the guts to do it? Do I have the guts to say what doesn't? What? You know, even now if I'm sitting in a boardroom with a whole bunch of really smart people and there's like a conversation there, obviously not wanting to have, am I willing to go have that conversation or am I, you know, if there's a jerk in the room that nobody's talking to and everybody's talking around, let's just talk about that. Hey man, what's up with you and your attitude? I'm dying to know and we can move on, but you seem really upset. Like constantly since I've met you, you've seemed upset. Why do you like being so upset? Let's talk about that. Anyway. They love that

Robin: 23:12

question. That is so good.

Adrian: 23:13

Yeah. Why do you like being upset, man? What's up with this? Take a on it. Come on, dude. Like, it's not like it's an AC accident. You love being upset. No, I don't. Well, I don't know. Let's look at your life for a minute. Like what percentage of your work life do you spend being upset? And let's say that's not an accident. What are the potential upsides to being the upset person? There's a long list of payoffs to being the upset person. Let's at least name them, right? And then let's get clear about the prices you pay. And other people pay for being the upset person cuz it's just a persona. It's just a game you're playing. You might think it's you, but I'm not Freud. I don't think this is you. I think this is just a strategy that you've used to survive. So, but let's talk about the future that comes with you being disgruntled guy. Anyway, the yeah, I tended to appoint myself, it might sound weird saying this, but I tended to just want to be the courageous guy and just step up. So when, Hey, do we have a volunteer? Yep. I'll go. Hey, who's gonna go do this? I will. You know who you know or so, and I just wanted to, I remember in high school it was a thing for me, although I was the quarterback of the football team and dating the chick and blah, blah, blah, student council, blah, blah, blah. There was an aspect of me where I had, this is gonna sound weird to say this stuff out loud, but I knew that that was power. That that was opportunity and that was influence. And there was a part of me that knew that I really wanted to befriend people that most of the people in my kind of class of, you know, cause I was kind of in the smart kids and the jocks and blah, blah, blah. There's certain people that, most of those folks in my different pockets, natural pockets, they didn't talk to. And I just wanted to go talk to them. And that's probably the faith conversation for me, just because. Not to evangelize it all cuz whatever believe, whatever you wanna believe. But I dug that about the, at least the image and the metaphor of, or the person of Jesus that he tended to go for the outsider and talk to people that nobody else talked to. And that was really compelling for me. It's like, wow, that's really cool to go break the rules, the social rules for the sake of love. That's cool. And that seems like. That's not what normal humans do, right? And I'd love to be abnormal, so let me go practice that, you know? And so I had collected a whole bunch of friends and I just loved going down the halls and like giving high fives to some of the people that would get, that would get neglected or not ignored most of their lives. And that was really, obviously there's big ROI in that for me cuz it feels good. It feels good to make a difference in people, but I, I knew it made a huge difference in them. Huge for them because I was like, vouching for them and Hey, come sit our table, come sit down. You know, like that kind of, and that was fun. And I knew I was being an example and I liked that. That feels good to be the example. So I mean, I was always also a teenager that was a jerk at times. And, you know, blah, like there's lots of, I'm not wanna paint a picture, like I'm like some kind of walking on water. That was definitely not the case, right. But, You know, but there was a striving there that meant a lot to me.

Robin: 26:22

So we had a lot of positive reinforcement over these behaviors at a young age. What was next? After high school?

Adrian: 26:30

Yeah. Went on to play. I was athletic enough and worked hard enough to go play football in college. Where'd you go? I went to Mil University Small school in Illinois. I didn't think I'd get a shot. My brother was like the more natural and the bigger athlete of the two of us. And that was kinda the runt, uhhuh. But I did work really hard and that compensated. And how many, how many siblings? Just two. Just just two of us. Me and my older brother, he's three years older and he was the Hoss. We would've called him in our vernacular. Big dude. He was the linebacker in the home, red hitter and the left-handed pitcher. Right. And he was, he was the total package. It worked out that I kind of got all my delinquency, most of my delinquency outta my. Did that early in high school. So in the last couple years of high school I was actually focused and, and after it, so went on to Milin was like, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up, I was like a pre-med major. I thought I'd go be a doctor, that kind of thing, just cuz I liked, I took all the, every biologic, every life science force there was and just loved that. And I memorizing stuff and n total nerd ball in that way. So I thought I might wanna be a doctor, so I was like pre-med. And then I realized, Pretty early in my college career. I didn't wanna do that. I just so happened to have a roommate that was, his dad was a, an rn in Gary, Indiana, like dealing with some heavy duty stuff, which sounded pretty fun to go get in the mix of some chaos. So actually shifted over and became a nursing major. So I was like football player slash nursing major. So in

Robin: 27:54

the mess of chaos, what was our draw to be in the mess of midst of chaos like that. Do you think

Adrian: 27:59

I just, it just sounded fun, man. I don't know if it's like growing up on Indiana Jones or whatever, but just like being a part of an adventure and Right. And I think it's the competitive edge in me, like going places. Nobody else wants to go or nobody else is willing to go. It's like that kind of take a risk and feel alive type thing. And maybe like partially being a thrill seeker. But I, I am made up that that was heroic to go do that kind of work too. So it's like ROI on your life. Like, you know, you can go fit in or you can go stand out and that the standing out's gonna feel better. So, so any,

Robin: 28:39

anytime and any time you put yourself out there to the extreme that you were Yeah. Even at a young age. Did it cause any humbling moments along the way that you learned something profound from?

Adrian: 28:51

Yes. Let's see where anything that reeled you in. Yeah, I'm just thinking about what those might have been. I mean, so profound moments for me. I, sorry. Just getting flashes in my mind around different scenarios and I, it might sound broke. I'm connecting all these dots that I haven't, so thanks for the great conversation. I, you know, I liked being involved in disparate groups and I kind of became good at. Being a part of this nursing cohort and there's like two dudes in the whole program. Right. And then, you know, being a part of the football team, which is like obviously all obviously, I guess now still all dudes and like the being able to make a bridge between those two communities or like represent both to the other that was pretty profound or. You know, even just a, being a freshman in college and you know, they have like a spring break program where you're like going out and doing a service project, which was compelling to me based on some of my history. And I jumped in and my team leader left. And so all of a sudden they said, Adrian, would you lead the thing? And I'm like, a freshman leading now a group of upperclassmen to go do a thing in Denver. And, you know, the profound moment was, which I guess I don't usually talk about so much my faith-based background, but there's an old, there's an old passage that says, don't let them look down on you because you're young, but set an example for them in life and love and speech and faith and purity. That's a, in a letter that be between a mentor and a mentee from Right, you know, 2000 years ago. But that whole idea, like, don't let them look, don't let them look down on you because you're young that, you know, I realized. That to be, to be so like, who cares? Like life, like maturity isn't connected to chronology. Like you can become mature really early if you want to. Like, you can become wise really early if you want to. You can have, you know, when I, we haven't gotten to all my story yet, but usually when I tell people about all my different career changes, they're like, oh, you've lived a handful of lives. And that's so just because I've decided to. Just go after what was appealing to me and what mattered to me. And there's like through lines about what makes that work. But you know, like who cares? Like the status quo is pretty boring. Yes. And.

Robin: 31:23

Yeah. And, and to have this kind of success in anything we do in life, it's maintaining the most challenging balance of all is the dichotomy of confidence with humility. Right. Obviously you've had a lot of confidence in all you're doing because you were constantly being validated that your methodology is working. Yeah. Any idea how you're able to maintain that humility along the way? Cuz you obviously we're doing it well.

Adrian: 31:45

Well, cuz I've blown it a ton. You know, e even just this morning, I was on the call with a client that I'd sent to a contractor of ours and he blew it. And there was some accounting that I needed to do about how I wasn't paying attention to the, to my client like I could have been. And it wasn't like I did anything wrong. I just didn't pay attention to what was right. Right. And you know, I'm on that call and I'm saying, man, you're totally right. I missed it. It's just on me. There's no excuse. There's no reason I missed it. And, you know, sought forgiveness for that. And I've, you know, and I've had needed to do that and want to do that just because I get that the ego takes me nowhere meaningful. It takes people, lots of places successful, but I don't want success without meaning. And. Having a clear conscious is a huge part of meaning. Yeah. So any, anytime, you know, when I blow it, I want to go make it right, right away, and I wanna own my shit and shut my mouth and just listen and learn. So yeah, that's how I, I mean humility. I mean, I, I've, I mean, the way I think about humility is, I mean, I think. Colloquially humility's about not not being too big in your own eyes, which I think is really true. Right? And humility's also about being right size, like really owning what you bring to the table. Like that's also a part of humility. And I do that in a way, like be of service to people, right? So acting small doesn't do anybody else favors either. So for me, in the humility conversation, I wanna really own what's true. Which is like, I have a ton to bring and I'm can be unapologetic about that and I've got a ton to learn and I want to be really unapologetic about that. So it's like this both and tension, that's never gonna go away and I wanna really be both, you know? And so if I blow it, I want to own it quickly like I did this morning with my wife when I, you know, reacted poorly when I'm trying to get the kids out the door and she's bringing up something that I wish she wasn't bringing up and it's slowing down the process. And I, you know, got defensive and, you know, and she texted me on the way to when I'm on the way to school and I just said, you are totally right. I am so sorry. And I wanted to argue, I wanted to argue and make sure she knew my point. But no man, shut your mouth. She's right. Own it. Right? Own it. And when I got home, came, gave her a kiss, said, Hey, you know what, here's what was going on for me and I was wrong. What'd you forgive me? And I want that to be more and more of a practice. I mean, I don't know. I'm 42 now, so the good thing is that happens quicker now than it did when I was 32. So anyway, I just wanna live on both of those dichotomies. Yeah. That's

Robin: 34:39

great balance and sounds like you're doing it phenomenally cuz it's owning. It's everything.

Adrian: 34:44

I'm really committed to it and that's

Robin: 34:46

for sure. Yeah. So what's next after college?

Adrian: 34:49

Oh yeah. So did college, got a nursing degree and nice. Dating a girl in Chicago. Moved to Chicago. And what was your specialty for nursing? I. Well outta college, it was nothing. I went and studied. I went whatever. I applied for four jobs in Chicago. There weren't many men in my profession. Thanks. You know, what was it? Meet the parents anyway. You usually get a job if you're a dude. We were 12% of the, of the field, and I interview well, so got four offers and I fell in love with this children's hospital. So up in Chicago, there was a children's hospital, loved that, loved the spirit of the place, and fell in love with the mission. You know, it's like, If, if a kid's sick, that's, I mean, what matters more than like sustaining a kid who's like, got 70 years ahead of them like that are, and, and. And you got a family that's like freaking out naturally having the worst day of their lives. And if you can step into that room and ground the room, educate the room, pull the room together, create fun and joy in the midst of chaos and tragedy, that sounded like a fun game to me. So I took a job at Children's Memorial and I ended up getting, I was the, you know, they didn't take let many new grads like me be part of their, what they called their resource team, which was, yeah, I was like a. I was a utility player, I could work on every floor. Yeah. And this was like, you know, the regional hospital, right. So it's the top hospital in the Midwest. Yeah. We were ranked number four in the nation at the time, but I got to work on every floor and be trained by the, the best of every floor, which was awesome. And the, the best of the best worked in the picu, so I ended up focusing. In the pediatric intensive care. Yep. Which was just, you know, once again, the highest stakes game there. And if you get really good at that, you could do everything else Right. That's the toughest stuff. So, and the. You know, I cared about the relational side of the work. I cared about the spiritual side of the work, which is mostly around relationships anyway, right? And so, you know, started writing, you know, articles for the nursing newsletter around how to build rapport with people, how to, you know, how to de, you know, deescalate cr, you know, quote unquote crazy parents. How to, you know talk, speak. And to instruct doctors on how to do their job better. You know, cuz we need them to do their job so we could do our job. And anyway, all those, the interpersonal dynamics of making it work was really fascinating to me and I at least had something to say about it. So I started writing and doing that part of it and I loved it and it was great and it was thrilling. At the same time, I was very involved in the faith world and involved in a church there. And long story short, I was with a team over in India doing some service projects as a way to prep for that. Trip they gave us this talk. Think of like a TED talk, I guess, for those listening. And of this guy that was out in, out in LA that talked about faith in the most dynamic way I'd ever heard. And moved out to LA and become an intern at this church. So I kept up the nursing side and then also pursued my. Love of meaning, love of mission, love of human development and leadership development at this church called Mosaic, which is a pretty well known church at the time, about 3000 people in the city of la. Those kind of big churches only happen in the suburbs usually, but this guy was compelling and world renowned in his authorship and speaking, and just a, a prophetic voice, like in the sense that I could translate big concepts to the ground. In a such a compelling way. He just became a mentor of mine. His name is Erwin, and, and I did that. I did that for a good while, and they asked me to set up and do what I love doing, which is activism type work and standing up for the poor and the marginalized and helping, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so I built a whole network for us between us and the city and the county and all these nonprofits. And mobilized about 2000 people a year to go make a difference. And so like pulling together a volunteer army to go give their time, give their money to go help somebody that you know, may never say thank you. That was a fun venture. So did that out of that. A guy that I had just helped in his own spiritual journey. His father was a billionaire, so he was a millionaire, and he said, Hey, would you help me give my money away? So I left Mosaic to go set up a foundation for him and helped him figure out what he wanted to do. So, took him around the world and introduced him to all the nonprofits that I knew and the missions that I knew, and the issues and the, all the, the challenges, social ills that needed help. And we ended up working in the prison system. So he fell in love with the idea of giving people who have blown it a second chance. Tell me

Robin: 39:19

more about the prison system, that is a really rough crowd to be working with. That takes this really special person to be able to do that.

Adrian: 39:28

It is a rough crowd and it's, it seems rougher than it is. Tell me about it. So, Well, you know, we, we went in and got to know through some relationships, we got to know a unique little cohort of people, which were the, in this one prison in California called Soledad State Prison max Security. There's a group of lifers and they, you know, they've been there for a while and they're gonna be there for a while. They had the possib, most of them had the possibility of parole, but they keep going up to the board and they keep getting rejected. So they, you know But they were the shock colorers, you know, they were the fathers of the prison. And so from a leadership perspective, I knew if I could make a difference with those guys, we could change the whole thing, you know, if you

Robin: 40:11

change, what did you go in there to try to do?

Adrian: 40:14

Well, we ended up, I mean, I came in there listening, so I followed some nuns, you know, cuz Catholics do a bunch of cool restorative justice stuff. I followed some nuns and got to know these guys and then we were talking about what these guys want and what they wanted was help. They really wanted help with themselves. You know, they go through these educational things and they gotta burn some time anyway, so they like lots of education stuff and that kind of thing. But at the same time, I met a guy that you've now met named Dan Dini. Dan brilliant guy, and had been in the transformational leadership space. I had a consulting company had been running these. Trainings, these leadership trainings in the public sphere for, you know, three decades at the time world class at, and I met him and he on the side had been doing gang intervention work. And so I got to know him and immediately hit it off with him. Like anybody that meets Dan, he's a fascinating fella, which you know amazing. Yeah, yeah. And I met him and I thought, okay, what can Dan do? So I hired Dan right away and I brought him in and he naturally did what he did, which was help set up and facilitate conversations of human transformation, like leadership transformation, healing. There's lots of ways you could talk about it, like healing, reconciliation, internally. Ownership. I mean, the biggest, the crux of that, those trainings, we would do these three day leadership trainings. The crux of the training is moving from a victim mindset to a responsible mindset. Yeah. Which was, which was where most of the pain of these guys was. How do you do

Robin: 41:44

that? So that is the most challenging question in the world, I think. All the people that suffer life's greatest ills are victims in their own mind. Yes. As opposed to people that are working the problem. Yeah. How do you get someone, and this will bring us into your coaching side, I'm sure, as we're keep moving through this journey, how do you move someone from the wound collecting victim mindset beyond that?

Adrian: 42:11

Well, you gotta point, you gotta teach the fish that he's swimming. Meaning how to

Robin: 42:16

teach a fish that they're swimming. I love it.

Adrian: 42:18

You know, it's, I mean, this, the mi a mindset in general is invisible to us, right? Right. Like, we're in it, like it's, and we actually call it us, right? Our thinking and our really, I mean, so I. Re results come from actions. We know that either actions or inaction, right? There's a result and then there, but all the action comes out of decisions we make or don't make. And all the decisions we make come out of thinking and how we make choices and all our thoughts and our analysis. And this is an intuitive and an analytical b blah and all that comes out of our belief system. So when we talk about a victim mindset, that's in the belief system. And so one of the core of our work is first off, helping people understand that people relate to the world, the way the world occurs to them. Like everything is connected to perception. Like we don't get a vote on that. That is neurologically gravity. Right. We're we're both on the same, we're both, it seems like we're both on the same call right now, but we're not. I'm on my version. You're on your version. There's things you're wondering about that I'm not wondering about, things I'm wondering about that you're not And now you know, so we're in this milieu, we're in this environment. As I teach a fish that they're swimming, we're, I'm swimming in an environment of my thinking. And most people don't think about how much they're thinking. They don't notice how much they're noticing, and by the way, wondering about why they do it that way and they don't ponder about it. There's not a lot of self-inquiry. And so to get to your question, how do you get somebody to shift? First off, you gotta get them to see like, can I see what I'm seeing? And then actually take this heroic journey of saying, I wonder if how I'm seeing it isn't an accident. Like I see it that way. Let's say there's purpose to it and what is the purpose and what's the future baked with that purpose. So a victim mindset says, the world's happening to me. It happened to me like I am happening to me. That person is happening to me. Right? Is it is a natural subjective, or what's the word? Oh, I can't think of the right word to describe it. Like I, I'm at effect of something else, like the other thing, whatever. The other thing is, and this is welcome to Sigmund Freud, right? Freud said, I am, I am because of, right? Like it's an etiological view. The nerds say, right, like, I am the, I am the effect of the cause. And the cause is not me. The cause is something else. And so I spent all my time in a, in a therapist chair, wondering about what happened when I was five. Now, No problem, but that's got a whole world baked in it, and the best I can do is overcome what happened. So to get them to, I mean, in these trainings, we would, by the end of day three, Early day three we'd already done, we'd broken a lot of stuff up and built rapport and started to challenge ideas and blah, blah, blah. And we'd do this victim responsible conversation, which would go something like this, where we'd talk about what does it mean to be a victim? We'd talk about, and everybody knows what it means to be a victim, blah, da da. And we'd put them, put them in pairs, and we'd had them tell this story to their partner. Say, why are you here? Why are you in prison? What happened? And they'd tell that story just in a neutral way. And then we'd do go through the victim thing, and I'd say, then we'd say, okay, good. Now tell the same story to the other person. But your job is to convince them that you're the victim. Like convince'em, don't be, don't like, don't take this easy. Convince'em, be dramatic, sell it. And then we'd have them do that. And we go back and forth. And if in part, if partner B, if partner A convinced you, the victim, stand up and better believe it, everybody stood up, right? Because we're really good at laying this on thick and saying, it's not me. It was Pooky, or it was the drug dealer, or it was my mom, or it's the fact of where I grew up, or blah blah, blah. That's easy to sell and everybody buys it. But then we'd say, what's it like? What was the experience of being the victim? What are the answers to that? Small. I'm angry. I'm powerless. There's nothing I can do. I'm stuck. I'm cold. I'm shut down. Whatever. There's all these experiences of being a victim. Then we'd say, okay, good. Now tell the same story to your partner, but now let's talk about what it means to be responsible. And we talk about what it means to be responsible, blah, blah. Now your job is to probably go back in time a little bit. Now you have to convince your partner that you were responsible, that you wanna be in prison on purpose, that you're responsible for everything that happened. So you gotta go back in time. And when you joined the gang, or when you went into that house and you knew it, or when you grabbed the gun that day, or when this happened, or when this happened, that it was your choice. Nobody else, it was you. And they would tell the story usually for the very first time, telling it in that way. And then, then we'd, let's, let's talk about it. What was your experience and what was the answer? Freedom. I get it. I'm alive. I'm like, it's easy. It was, you know, maybe a little bit awkward, but man, like I wasn't ashamed anymore. Like I just owned it and it was over, I was out of the story and actually owned results. And so that's, so part of it is people, You know, it brings up this kicker guard quote, men find a level of despair that's tolerable and call that happiness. And that's the victimized mindset is like that. Like it actually doesn't serve us. It just protects us. It doesn't help us. It just, you know, keeps me safe. But if I'm willing to kind of die to my own ego and I just own my shit, I'm actually, you know, there's the old rabbinic saying, the truth is what sets us free. So you, how do you get people? You just invite them to see it and then you invite them to wear it. And then being responsible just feels a lot better actually. We have a shot of having integrity. Yeah. If I'm, if I'm responsible, if I'm a victim, I'll just never have integrity. Oh.

Robin: 48:09

And if we can get the, the victim mentality out the world would just be an easier place to live in for everyone. Amen. And, and you got it down about how to start moving people in that direction.

Adrian: 48:19

Yeah, we, it's scary, I mean, Taking ownership is more frightening than being a victim. It's just worth it. Yeah. You know, so you, if you call people into courageous action and get them to act out of their best, out of their best self instead of their kind of practiced mediocre self over time, it's like, okay, I'm actually this guy. I'm the, I'm that one. I'm not gonna go back to who I was before. And that's leadership transformation. So we do that. We do that on a, on a micro and macro scale inside of companies all day long. It might sound weird cuz we're like in the business consultant guys, but we're going deep man. Like cuz that's where, that's where the breakthrough

Robin: 48:57

is. It's calling. I love it. Calling people to courageous action. Yeah. That gets us, right towards the end here. And that is, so we, you obviously covered a lot about what you do now. Tell me a little bit more about what you do now and the service you

Adrian: 49:09

offer. Yeah, so I've got a phenomenal firm of amazing people. It's called Take New Ground and we intervene. Inside the lives of leaders in their organizations. So we're called in to, to help leaders get really clean and really clear about what they're up to and get really committed to what they're doing right, which is like moving beyond a goals conversation. Let's move it into a commitment conversation. What's actually matters to you? What's this really about? Right? And so we get the why really loud and get the who really loud. Like who the hell am I. Right, because we work with only really ambitious, fast moving, brilliant leaders, and there is still a bit of angst in them that they can't get their best gifts on the table. And that's always a who conversation, like what they've decided about them or what they've, most of their frustrations are with other people. So breaking through to somebody else, like actually building a team that can hang the way they hang. And even beyond really, and like getting the resources to the table. So we spend a lot of time, I spend a lot of time coaching founders, coaching CEOs, coaching C-suite executives, and we come in and do these. You know, we don't do kind of kumbaya retreats or kind of educational, you know, offsites that of course we can teach crap, but it just doesn't make a much difference as much as Revelation does, which is like what can happen in a moment. That's

Robin: 50:28

another great pithy statement. Go ahead, keep going. That

Adrian: 50:30

was great. You know, and that, so we transform and it always happens to really honest dialogue. So when people get really honest and get real, people step up. Or they step out, which is usually great, you know, it's like if, if they don't wanna do the work here, great. Like love ya, let's go find you a past. You want to go in. So anyway, and then we come in, I've got a great team of high-end experts and we can do everything for mergers and acquisitions to restructuring and org, this and that, and you know, recruitment and anyway we can help in every aspect of business, but it's always the core, the lifeblood of every organization is what's able to be talked about. And we open that up. You know exponentially more than most humans are willing to do.

Robin: 51:09

Unbelievable. And it's easy to see why you are so effective at what you do is cuz you have a lifetime of reps. Mm-hmm. It's what you were born and called to do is spend the thread through your life and it was given to you by the thread of your parents as well. Yep. So it's, it's, it's, you're definitely been on your path in life's journey. Adrian, is there times running down? What's something that I should have asked you that I didn't ask you that wanna make sure you share with everyone

Adrian: 51:33

before we leave? Have I always had this stellar beard? I haven't always had this stellar beard. No. Tell me about your stellar beard. No. Anyway, I've always had some kind of facial hair. The, what's a better answer to that question? What have you asked me? How, if people are compelled, what should they do? Go first, go talk to anybody. Go have an honest conversation with anybody. Go do that. That's a, that's a big win. If you don't have any kind of coach in your life, go get a coach. And there's lots of'em out there, some of them are stellar. Go find one of those. If you don't know where to go, reach out to us. We love advocating for amazing people. So we love any conversation anybody wants to have. And we'll fight for you. Fierce advocacy is our work, you know, so we fight for the best thing and we don't fuck around. Like we're really here to get something done with love. Right? With love. Like, it's like fighting for people is, is our biggest joy. So we've got lots of opportunities for people depending on what they're looking for and what they want. So, and that's,

Robin: 52:28

and Adrian, where can people go to bring you into their lives?

Adrian: 52:32

Well, we've got a podcast of our own Naked Leadership podcast. You'll learn a lot there.

Robin: 52:36

And it's the title of this episode, by the way. Naked Leadership.

Adrian: 52:39

Naked Leadership. Go check it out. We've got a, you know, life is life's not fair. It's what you negotiate. We've created a nego, we've. We've created a negotiation tool for people to understand their own style, their natural style, and to see the upsides to that and pro and they baked in Downsides to that we've created that free quiz takes like five minutes. It's negotiation dot take new ground.com. They can go take that on the show notes everyone. Excellent. And you know, we've got yeah, YouTube channel. You can follow me on Instagram, adrian dot k, you know, lots of places. Come find me.

Robin: 53:11

Awesome. And everyone that's in the show notes as always, Adrian, it's been an honor and a pleasure and a joy listening to this amazing, transformational life you've had. So thank you so much for coming on and

Adrian: 53:23

sharing. You are a joy, my friend. Thank you. So excited about this relationship. Yeah,

Robin: 53:27

me too. Thank you. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Forged By Trust. Remember, if you want to forge trust, it's not how you make people feel about you that matters. It's how you make them feel about themselves. If you're interested in more information about how it can help you forge your own trust building. Communication and interpersonal strategies. As a speaker, your coach, or as a trusted advisor for you or your organization, please visit my website@www.peopleformula.com. I'm looking forward to sharing my next Forge by Trust episode with you next week when we do a deep dive and being in the moment with the incredible Neil Malarkey.