Your Journey to Greatness w/ Joshua Medcalf

🤔 Focusing on the outcome and not loving the process is often a recipe for frustration and failure. But, when you want to Create something that Changes the World, it is your Hard Work and not Luck that matters most. Therefore, tune into this “straight shooting” episode with Best Selling Author of Chop Wood Carry Water and Discover Your Journey to Greatness. 

🌟 What We Discuss with Joshua:

👉 ⁃       Work Ethic and Grind

👉 ⁃       Creating Something that Changes the World

👉 ⁃       What Would you do if Money Didn’t Matter

👉 ⁃       The Courage to Make Change

👉 ⁃       Love People, Serve People, Provide Value

👉 ⁃       Learning Through Stories, Not Statistics

👉 ⁃       Valuing Who You are Working with in the Moment

👉 ⁃       Rely on Your Hard Work, not Luck

🌟 About Joshua:

Joshua Medcalf advises leading brands and top people in sports and coaching on the key shifts and the future of leadership, innovation, management, mindset and grit. Joshua is a straight shooter who is passionate about people and he communicates with a heart posture of love and grace.  But he is not afraid to say the hard things that people need to hear, which has made him a valuable consultant and mentor to some of the best in the world.

He is the bestselling author of six books, including the international Phenom, Chop Wood Carry Water.

🙏 Thanks, Joshua! Reach out, connect, and follow Joshua:

👉 https://www.instagram.com/realjoshuamedcalf/

👉 https://twitter.com/JoshuaMedcalf

👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-medcalf-0948292b/

 
🌟 Resources Mentioned in the Podcast: 

👉 -       Joshua’s Website with all his Resources: http://t2bc.com

👉 -       Joshua’s amazing books, including the international best seller, “Chop Wood, Carry Water”: https://t2bc.com/books

Pre-Order my Latest Book: "Unbreakable Alliances: A Spy Recruiters Authoritative Guide to Cultivating Powerful & Lasting Connections" HERE

Unlocking the Power of Trust: Keynote Speaker Robin Dreeke Shares Secrets to Creating Allies - Robin is the former Chief of the FBI's Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. With over 30 years of experience in recruiting spies and building trust, Robin is the world-renowned speaker you need. Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn from a true expert. Contact us now to book your event! Click HERE to book a time to chat.

🤔 Take Robin's FREE YouTube Keys to Communication Online Course HERE.

😃 Check out Robin's Speaking, and Training Services HERE.

Transcript

Joshua: 0:04

And so just going towards hard, moving towards hard, that oftentimes if we will do that, it is gonna open up so many things for us that it is against every natural, impulse in our body. We want to move towards comfort. We are creatures of comfort, but when we do that, it causes all these, unintended consequences. And so if we actually want an easier life, we need to kind of move towards sprint towards hard.

Robin: 0:38

Focusing on the outcome and not loving the process is often a recipe for frustration and failure, but when you want to create something that changes the world, it is your hard work and not luck that matters most. Therefore, tune into this straight shooting episode with bestselling author of Chop Wood Carry Water, and Discover your Journey to Greatness. Welcome to the Forged by Trust Podcast. I'm your host, Robin Dreek, professional speaker, executive coach, former US Marine Spy recruiter, bestselling author, and your trust and communication expert. Coming up next on the Forged By Trust podcast.

Joshua: 1:09

there's definitely talent involved with people, but oftentimes it's a lot more of the work ethic and the grind and the everything that they've done to become that person. and for the first time in my life I asked myself what I would do if money didn't matter, and it wasn't go to law school. It was serve. I think we have a really bad, bad, terrible disease in this country of listening to what people say instead of observing their actions and the specific words that they're using and what they're not saying, and we're not being deeply present and we're not deeply listening.

Robin: 1:45

Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. My name is Robin Dre, and I'm honored to be your host. I bring a wealth of experience and expertise to the table as an FBI spy recruiter, professional speaker, executive coach, former US marine bestselling author, and most importantly, your trust and communication expert. The Forged By Trust podcast is a show where we explore the essential skill of forging trust for building an innovative culture and exceptional leadership. Join us as we delve into the behavior, skills and communication techniques required for success and learn from the best in the industry. Our guests include spies, spy recruiters, master interrogators, bestselling authors, thought leaders, and innovators who will share their insights on building teams, partnerships, and exceptional leadership by 4G Trust. Today's episode, your Journey to Greatness is with bestselling author of six books, including the World Declaimed Chop Wood Carry Water, Joshua Medcalf, joshua advises leading brands and top people in sports and coaching on the key shifts and the future of leadership, innovation, management, mindset, and grit. Joshua is a straight shooter who is passionate about people, and he communicates with a heart posture of love and grace. But he's not afraid to say the hard things that people need to hear, which has made him a valuable consultant and mentor to some of the best in the world. He's a bestselling author of six books, including the International Phenom Chop Wood Carry Water. You can find out more about Joshua at his company website, t2 bc.com. During the episode today, we talk about work ethic and grind, creating something that changes the world. What would you do if money didn't matter? The courage to make change. Love people. Serve people, provide value. Valuing who you are working with in the moment and relying on hard work, not luck. All right. Joshua Medcalf, welcome to Forge by Trust. What an honor and pleasure to finally get you

Joshua: 3:36

on. Excited to be here, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And, and

Robin: 3:41

for those that are, are just tuning in and don't know the backstory here, Joshua laid down one of the best gauntlets I have ever had by any guest I've off offered to come on the show, and that is in order. He said, absolutely love to come on your show. The only deal is you have to read five of my books. And I was like, yeha, because I love the first one and I dove into the others. And so for those listening, I'm gonna put'em all in the show notes that, that he is got more than five, but they are absolutely life transformational. And I discovered threads throughout them. And I think that's the greatest thing with every human being is we have these threads that we basically are forged with early in life that become this string that we follow. And we have all these different things we do throughout life to serve this greater purpose that we kind of discover early on. And I was curious for you, Joshua. You had this thread that seemed to start when you were younger, that you really see the pain in others, you then touch the pain in others and then you do all you can to resolve that pain in others. What do you think was that original spark all those years ago growing up that gave you that ability and compassion to see that

Joshua: 4:48

pain in others? Well, I don't know exactly, but I mean, I think if you talk about threads that, you know, whenever I was nine and my baby brother, my best friend in the world drowned and I was the one that pulled him out of the pool, and it was especially tough. I think that type of situation would be incredibly tough for anyone, but it would be much later in my life when I was 33 that I found out that I was on the spectrum and so I didn't have a lot of friends, especially. Very early on in my life, you know, when I started to get to 12, 13 and team sports and things like that, I had a few more, but my baby brother, we bounced around. My dad had grown up in a trailer park, duct tape his trailer together. Had to fight his way across the railroad tracks every day. Sold drugs, crazy. Upbringing. Ended up working really hard, becoming an eye surgeon, but it took him seven years to actually get into the ophthalmology program. Okay, so lemme stop. So we were bouncing

Robin: 5:52

year around and one second. So just more from framing back there.

Joshua: 5:56

So where'd you grow up? So, I was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Okay. When I was one, we moved to Chicago. I lived in Chicago for three years. Most of my family and a lot of my childhood friends and college friends call me Bear. One of the first things I ever said was doe bears. And so Chicago was very, I important have on Jordan's right now. And so, Then when I was four, we moved to Detroit, Troy, specifically, we lived in Troy for another three years. Then we went from Troy to Akron, and then whenever I was eight we moved back to broken Arrow, Tulsa, Oklahoma. And then that summer when I was eight, nine, that's when my baby brother drowned in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And you said

Robin: 6:45

your father, was your mother around or just your dad?

Joshua: 6:48

Yes, mother was around as well. Father and I had a very tumultuous relationship. Him not having a dad, him growing up in a trailer park, and also him and I sharing a lot of characteristics and being very similar to each other. And so we were a little bit of a, of a lightning rod. He didn't have a lot of tools. He didn't have a lot of. Wisdom and, and education and mentorship around interpersonal relationships and parenting. And so by the time I was probably 15, 16, I kind of had to be the. Adult in our relationship, which was very confusing and challenging for a 15, 16 year old. But my mom and I had an amazing relationship and my mom is one of the best interpersonal people in the world. Oftentimes, whenever I, you know, finish being on stage, people would be like, how in the world? And especially I was coaching, you know, legends in their field when I was. 25. Yeah. And I was speaking a lot whenever I was really young and they were like, how in the world? Like, and I'm like, well, my mom is one of the most gifted teachers I've ever known, and so I have an amazing relationship with her. She's who? Molded me and shaped me more than anyone. And then my dad was just more of the disciplinarian, but that I identified with, in terms of my whole life. People have been like, you're not gonna make it here. There's no way you can do this. You won't fit in, or you're gonna get kicked out, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you don't know what's in my dna. Like, you don't understand who I am via my father and what my father overcame. You think I can't overcome this little thing? You, you don't know how I was built and yeah.

Robin: 8:37

So let's chat about your dad, if it's okay. Yeah. I'd love, yeah, for sure. A little bit more about your dad, since you said you took a lot on, from him in personality and traits and things, and especially since your mother was a big influence on your life, and obviously saw something in your dad that he might not have even seen in himself. What was his thread? That and the, and the traits that kind of continued into you because yeah, he overcame a lot in order to become an optometrist. I mean, that's pretty, pretty remarkable actually. What was his origin story that brought him to that point?

Joshua: 9:09

That's a good question. And honestly, I don't know. I mean, literally, you know, my dad got diagnosed with terminal cancer whenever I was 21. Right. And he passed away at, when I was 23. And we just, we didn't have that kind of relationship and we never got to a point where I was old enough and mature enough and that he was mature enough to really have any of those types of conversations. So I, I didn't have those types of conversations with him. I know the kind of, Overarching threads that I've shared with you, but I just didn't have that kind of relationship at all. And I mean, it, it was a very, very challenging relationship sometimes for us to be in the same room, right? No less have somewhat of a productive dialogue and conversation. They just didn't happen very often. I mean, to be completely vulnerable. Six weeks before he died, we were in Mexico and he threatened to kill me and told me very vividly that if he didn't have this effing cancer, that he would effing kill me with this lamp. And you know, so we had this very, very fiery relationship and in that moment I hadn't really done anything wrong. And so it was this very weird dynamic of, a lot of it had to do with, he always tried to protect my younger brother who was the. Middle child who became the baby, who then kind of became the middle child again, cuz we adopted Luke, who Luke is now 22. And so it was this very interesting dynamic. I think both of my parents, when my brother drowned, when my, you know, my middle brother became the baby of the family, I think they really worked very hard in kind of their coping mechanism was to protect him, especially him, right? Because, I don't know, I don't think a lot of people ever worry about me being on my own or me figuring things out. That's just kind of my personality. They may not think I'm gonna last in places, but like, I, I'm a resilient one. And I think that with him being the now baby, they were overprotective of him. And so there was a lot of stuff that would happen. And really my relationship with my brother was a reflection of my dad's relationship with me. So my dad was incredibly hard on me. Well, what did I turn around and do? Was incredibly hard on my brother. Right. And, you know, turned him into, we are both very freak athletes, but he virtually got onto the US national team for soccer. I turned him into, you know, one of the best soccer players in the country. I was pretty amazing as well. Played at Duke, finished second in points there. Played at Vanderbilt my first three years. But my brother was the really special soccer player. And, but I was incredibly hard on him the same way. My dad was incredibly hard on me. So we had this tough relationship. I think my dad would kind of see that and then he'd get frustrated with me. But I think really what he was seeing is a projection in a mirror of the way in his adequ inadequacies as a father and a coach to me as an adult, cuz I'm just a teenager. You know, just, you know, mirroring what my father was doing to me of like, okay, I guess this is what the older person does, this is what it means to be responsible with somebody younger than you and their potential. So yeah, I don't know a ton about his origin story, quite frankly. I don't talk to very many people in my family to this day. There's one cousin that I talked to that's from my dad's side that my dad actually mentored who became a a doctor as well. He's one of the best molecular biologists in the world. Led Oklahoma pretty much through the pandemic. He's been in the New York Times and things like that, and so he's the only one that I really communicate with. But I'm pretty disconnected from stories and things like that. That, especially on my dad's side with the relationship we had and then how early he passed. Now, what about your mom?

Robin: 13:21

One of the greatest statements I loved in your, in, I think it was the last book I read on leadership, on future leadership, where you said, think about the person you wanna have walk through the door, and are you that person yourself? Mm-hmm. I know I'm paraphrasing it. So your mom, she must be one of the people that you loved when she walked through the door. So what was she seeing do you think, in you and seeing in your brothers and seeing in your father that you might not have seen the same way she did?

Joshua: 13:52

Good question. I don't know exactly. I don't even know specifically if it, if it was that my mom saw anything in me. I just think that that's who my mom is. My mom has this incredible ability to see the best in people, to see their potential to speak it into life, to work really hard with them. Again, being a very good athlete. Golf now is my love. I'm very, very forward. Fortunate that I've worked a lot with people in golf. My best friend is the best golf coach in the world, and I have pretty good hand-eye coordination. And then, you know, being on the spectrum, if you, if I could point the camera down here, right beside me is my putting mat in the middle of my, you know, living room. I roll balls. I, I like to train, I like to work. But you know, I, I end up becoming our, our club champion at, at, at my country club. And so but my mom is the one that. Taught me how to play sports. My dad didn't play sports. He was athletic in the, the general sense, but he did not play sports. He didn't even really like us watching sports on tv. This was back when we only had one television. And you know, he would rather watch the news than sports. And so people always find that fascinating. But I'm like, yeah, my mom is the one who taught me how to play sports. Not, not my dad, but she just, she just has been like that with everyone. I've, again, I wish that it was me being special, but I think that that's just who she is. And then, you know, I more, I think I, I gravitate towards, as I, especially as I get older, I realize how often I gravitate towards people that are, that have a ton of potential and or that are just really, really amazing at what they do. I, I really enjoy being around people that care about mastery, that have worked really hard, that, you know, sometimes I'm, I'm, there's definitely talent involved with people, but oftentimes it's a lot more of the work ethic and the grind and the everything that they've done to become that person. But I've just noticed this trend in my life where quite a few of the people around me, Tend to be very, very good in the world at what they do. Yeah. They don't make excuses. They take responsibility. They work really hard and they just have, have made it to some pretty incredible places.

Robin: 16:12

They pound the stone and hustle. They have, yes. They pounded

Joshua: 16:15

the stone. They've chocolate care, water. They're amazing leaders. Oh, it's amazing. All the above.

Robin: 16:21

It's, it's interesting that you say that your mom is the one that got you and encouraged the sports side, but you also said that she was the one that everyone just gravitated to and, and yeah. And she saw the best in others. And so that's exactly what you did. Okay, so I got the background. We start to see the formation here. Now let's start moving forward. So you, you're young, we had this horrendous event with the loss of your brother, as you said, your best friend, and you have challenging situations at home at, at this age. Probably not nine or 10 at that point, but we entered high school. You're into sports, you're doing really well. What did we think we're gonna do with our lives?

Joshua: 16:57

There was really three things. I thought that I was gonna be a missionary when I was really young. I, my mom had me in preaching competitions, which is very weird. But I was preaching in competitions when I was six. I started, wait,

Robin: 17:13

okay, we're, we're gonna stop that. You mentioned two other, we're gonna go to the other. I want to hear more about this preaching competition.

Joshua: 17:18

That is fascinating. What this church, there's church camps in the summer, right? And you would go to church camp and we did, there was two things that we did and my mom kind of led both of them. One was Bible quiz. So you were on a team and it's a buzzer competition where you have to buzz in and answer the question. And you would compete against other churches. And then there was preaching competitions. And so I would, you know, put together a a preaching talk and I would have to preach for, you know, whether it was five minutes, seven minutes, 10 minutes. I don't, I don't remember what it was, but give a sermon. And I was winning those and started winning whenever I was seven years old. Do you remember

Robin: 18:04

what the first one was?

Joshua: 18:05

What was the topic? No, no clue. I don't, truthfully, when I hear people tell stories about, like, they, they remember like their second grade friend and they remember their first kiss and girlfriend in third grade, I think based off of the P T S D and trauma for my brother, I, I don't have a lot of those. There's very few memories that I have from my childhood like that. I have some, but I don't remember that. Type of right stuff. I remember more in aana, which is another kind of, that's an internal church program where you memorize Bible versus saying play games. I remember specifically they have these kind of four quadrants and each team is in a different one and the middle, there's a lot of different games, but there's a bowling pin is the first place prize and then there's a beanbag underneath it. And I remember running and diving with another kid and us clashing heads and you know, chipping my tooth like those are the type, I remember that stuff more than I remember this specific sermon that I would've given. But yeah, I mean I've had many conversations with my mom about that and yeah, it was when I was six and seven that I started. And

Robin: 19:19

that, it's interesting too because I know faith is a a big part of your life and you write about it quite frequently as well. It's also interesting too, because you have infused not just your Christianity and the faith in that, but. A lot of your concepts you speak about are actually a lot of Eastern philosophy con concepts as well. So it's, it's a, I found to be an amazing infusion of everything. So, alright, so that was the first one of potentially three. What was the second that you thought you might wind up doing growing up?

Joshua: 19:47

So, yes, it was being a missionary then it was really, it was just going to law school and I probably, I've always been really good at convincing people of things and arguing and you know, especially with people in positions of leadership, I've always been pretty stubborn and obstinate and, you know, it would always be like teachers and people in leadership would always say you were the most frustrating person to have to work with. But then simultaneously, My mom would say, yeah, but if you needed somebody to defend you or prosecute a case, who would you want? And they're like him. And so that was really what I thought I was going to do with my life. But the threat of sports has always been there. Yeah. So I always knew that I was going to play sports. I, there wasn't too much doubt in my mind that I would play sports in college. Now, did I really think that I could play professionally? No. I probably could have pretty easily if my body had held up better. But, and, but those were the, those were the two things from the time that I was probably 10, maybe 11, they started reading John Grisham books. Oh wow. And when I saw. What he was doing that that was like, this is what I am gonna do. So go to law school was really, really at the forefront of my mind from a very young age, but it was also going to be via, you know, sports that I was going to also play sports. But I didn't, I don't really remember being like, Ooh, I'm gonna play professional soccer. And I never really loved soccer. I quit everything else my freshman year to focus on soccer. Because I just knew that I was the best at that naturally, and that it was gonna open the most doors for me. And it, I didn't understand at that time how crazy that would be and the way that that would all play out. But I did know that soccer would open doors for my life, but I, I never loved it. And it drove so many of my teammates crazy when I would say that. And they're like, what do you mean? Like, and I'm like, dude, I don't love soccer. And most of the time I don't even really like it. I just love to compete and I love to play sports. So it was like, all right, well this is, this is the one that's gonna open the most doors. All right. So we

Robin: 22:19

used sports to, and soccer to open a door. So it was the first door that we left high school. We went to Duke. Vanderbilt first. Vanderbilt first. So what was it? How did we use that? And what were we doing and what were we

22:30

starting

Joshua: 22:30

to think at that point? Well, I mean, in terms of opening doors, I had a 21 on my a c t. So, you know, I was at dinner with one of my best friends and she's married to one of the hottest CROs in the country, and he literally was so hung up on this. He was like, wait, but how did you get into Vanderbilt with the 21? And I was like, I was just really, really good at soccer. Like, I'm not exaggerating. Like I was a slot student. What they called back then. Yeah. One of, you know, the school had I think nine to 11 slot students across all sports, and they had to divvy that up. And coach fought for me and one other kid on our team to get two of those spots that year that there's no chance that we would've gotten into the school. I mean, on my hall alone, freshman year, there were three kids that had perfect scores, 36 es on their a c t. So I saw it there. And then once again, whenever, so they cut our program at Vanderbilt after my third year and. I just graduated, hung up my cleats and wasn't gonna try and play anywhere else. The Vanderbilt education was really important to my dad, him growing up in a trailer park and me getting to go to a school like that, right? And so I just focused on that and then randomly, duke called and they were like, so what's your, you know, gpa? And I was like, ah, it's like a 2.9. And they were like, yeah, that's not a 3.0. There's no chance we can get you into any program. And so, worked really hard the last semester. Built quite a few great relationships with my teachers, let them know it was on the line, and then got it up to a 3.0 and they were able to sneak me in to the Masters of Art. Liberal studies program at Duke. So it, it happened not once but twice, where being pretty good at soccer opened some pretty crazy doors. And then at Duke, that's when I started working with the sports psychologist. That was the last pick on the team when we played pickup games. And in a two month period I went from being the last pick to the Duke student athlete of the week, ACC C Player of the week, and finishing second in points to the best player in the country. Mike grow up. So I'm really curious,

Robin: 24:35

you said something in there about how you had to get your teachers to like you and support you to go from that two nine to to three. Oh, so we had the talent, but talent without relationships is just, talent doesn't go really go many places. It looks like you started kind of having this ability to forge relationships and allies in life. Did you see that happening?

Joshua: 24:58

Yes. I mean, that's one thing I'd always been decent at is, you know, building relationships with very specific individuals. I don't think I'd ever understood from an academic perspective, truly how important that was. It was more out of necessity in that moment, and I wasn't trying to get them to like me to be clear, right? I just knew that I needed to build a relationship with them and I needed them to understand the context of what was on the line, and even more so, you know, what I was willing to do, to what do I need to do to do the best that I can In this class, I'll learn whatever I need to learn. I will create whatever I need to create, but really at the end of the day, I'm willing to put in more effort, but I really need an A in this class, because if I don't get an A, I need a 3.9 this semester to be able to bump it up and get me to a a 3.0. I'm

Robin: 26:01

curious, just because someone says they need something doesn't need, doesn't mean someone's actually gonna give it to you. There's, there's needs to be a reason that you inspired them to want to. What do you think they were seeing in you that said, all right, I can do this for

Joshua: 26:14

em. Well, I think that if you're in academia and education, you know, the opportunity to go to a school like Duke, I think most people would understand that that is, you know, it's almost their downside. And I've hammered the education system for decades in terms of the way they teach and how backwards it is. And even I've, I've called it a pyramid scheme, right? But if you're actively involved in the pyramid scheme and somebody's telling you that they want to go higher in the pyramid scheme and they're willing to work hard, do whatever it takes, but that they really need and. Really want this opportunity that could be kind of life changing and ended up not only being life changing for me, but being the springboard for me, taking what I learned at Duke and then expanding upon it, and really transforming sports psychology in this country. I would make a strong argument that before I did what I did with creating the first mental training apps in the world for basketball, soccer, and golf, for really chop wood carry water, go-to book in sports psychology. It, it didn't exist the way that it exists today. Being the first, you know, I was a director of mental training for U C L women's basketball. Like there was all these things that I did to push sports psychology to the forefront of the consciousness in sports and make it very easy and accessible and practical for elementary school kids, middle school kids, high school kids. But that all came from these teachers kind of understanding. If he's really willing to do the work, if he's really willing to be this invested in this and he's gonna get an opportunity to go to Duke, we're invested in pushing him further down the pyramid scheme. Sometimes it works like that. And, and truthfully, I loved the program at Duke because you know, when you say Masters of Arts and Liberal Studies, that sounds like, oh, that's a waste of time. But I could actually take classes across any discipline in the entire university. And so I was getting to choose stuff that I was actually interested in. And for the first time, I did really, really well. I had a 4.0 at Duke. Wow. They don't love it, that I didn't write my master's thesis. And I sent the director of our program and an email that said, I'm not gonna write a paper that collects dust on somebody's desk. I'm gonna create an organization that changes the world. Never got an email back from that. But that is, that's what I said, worked out okay though. Yeah. It not only worked out okay, but I, I think I did what I said that I was going to do and, and I think that it actually would've inhibited me had I had my master's thesis because Pepperdine at one point asked me to teach sports psychology. And the only thing that got in the way of that is I didn't have a master's in something. If I had had my master's, I would've taken that job. I think I would've gotten comfortable and not had that fire inside of me that I needed to know that without something like that, I was gonna have to work incredibly hard. I was gonna have to be both an artist and an entrepreneur and a scientist. And so it kind of always kept that fire inside of me that I knew that I had nothing that I could fall back on and that I wasn't gonna be able to get one of those safe jobs. I was gonna have to be a, a purebred entrepreneur if I was gonna make this work.

Robin: 29:36

And you definitely thrive in discomfort. So sadly,

Joshua: 29:41

yeah, there's, that's the, that's the childhood trauma part that it's taken a long time to actually not manufacture that subconsciously or consciously because of how much I do tend to thrive in chaos. Yeah.

Robin: 29:55

And you, you have reps in it and I, I talked about that a lot. I mean, you have mastery of chaos and how to thrive in it. Yeah. Well, and last question before we move on. What, so after you lost your dad, what was your mom doing to

Joshua: 30:08

survive? So it was actually a kind of unique situation that they tell in the insurance world. My dad had two to five years before he got terminal cancer, done a pretty big life insurance policy Oh, good. With the next door neighbor. And that ended up being like his marketing pitch and sales pitch to people for the next 20 years because it was, you know, Life changing for my mom, she would've had to go back to work as a school teacher. But I, I don't know the exact specifics around it, but I think that, you know, something in the range of two to 4 million. And so it was really, really impactful for her. It was on part with what he would've made, you know, over the next 15, 20 years. Right. But for her to have that support. And then she comes from a depression family. So my mom still to this day lives like, you know, she is in the Great Depression and spends money on nothing. And, you know, I'm like, mom, you know, I'll, I'll be okay. I, I don't need anything from you when you're, when you're gone. But she is the most frugal human that I've ever, ever met. And but yeah, that was, you know, in great stoic allowed

Robin: 31:23

her. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to be wealthy. Just want less.

Joshua: 31:27

Yes. And that's very much how, how she is always lived, but. Yeah, I mean it, and it was a, there was a time period there. I don't know how long it took for that to pay out, but you know, she went from living in a home where, I don't know exactly again, what the, the numbers were, but let's say dad's monthly income was 30 to 45,000 and then all of a sudden it was three to 4,000 a month for quite a while. And so that as well kind of, I think, scared her and made her go back to her roots even more of save, don't spend money and, and things like that.

Robin: 32:04

Lots of good pain. We learn a lot from it. Yeah. All right. So we decide not to get our, or do our thesis.

Joshua: 32:11

What was next? Next I move across the country into a homeless shelter. And I, this is what,

Robin: 32:17

this is the story to love. What's, what inspired going to the homeless shelter? This was intriguing. Good stuff because we love chaos. So

Joshua: 32:25

yeah, I, but this one to me was less about the chaos and it was more, I told my mom that I wanted to skip scholarships to law school and I wanted to start my own nonprofit. Cause I wanted to teach this stuff that I had learned at Duke. And she said, that's great. I just want you to have worked for one first. So I literally googled nonprofits in la I had had an an, an encounter with a girl named Brandis Baker, her family, incredibly wealthy and. I had been in this little short term relationship with her, and for the first time in my life I asked myself what I would do if money didn't matter, and it wasn't go to law school. It was serve. And so I, where did that, and I'm sorry,

Robin: 33:07

Joshua, where did that come from? That that's, you know, young age,

Joshua: 33:10

that's a, well, so this is what was crazy about that is I wasn't like this. If, if I loved you growing up, I was, and I'm still this way. I, I've sh I've shaved off some of the edges and life has, has helped me grow and mature. But it used to be so dramatic where if I was in your corner, there's nothing I wouldn't do for you if I wasn't in your corner. You could, you could catch a left jab at any time and not even be ready for it. And I was your worst enemy a little bit. I was explaining this to somebody the other day that I was very similar to like a Ron Art test or a Dennis Rodman that y you, you hate playing against them. You love having them on your team. Right. And. So, yeah. When I asked myself that question and the answer to it, you know, if money doesn't matter, then going out and just trying to make more money doesn't really make sense, and I do have a very logical brain. It's gotta make sense. And so that didn't make sense. And so, but when I told people in my life, Hey, this is what I think I'm gonna do, they're like, what? Like, when we had to do a community service event, I complained about it for two weeks before and a month afterwards, and I would just stand around and not even really do anything while we were doing it. I felt like it was being forced upon me. If it's being forced upon me, then it's fake all growing up, especially due to the trauma of my brother. I, I became very obsessed with fake and real, and I felt like so much of life was fake. There's a quote that I, I read in the Orphan X Series, maturity is graduating from the belief the world misunderstands you to the awareness that you misunderstand the world. Maturity is graduating from the belief the world misunderstands you to the awareness that you misunderstand the world. Totally. That hit home really deeply for me because that's kind of how I was as a kid of like, no, this is, I'm real and this is fake. And if you're real, then we're gonna get along great. I'm still that way, but I understand that there's a thousand shades of gray that go into that and there's so much context and nuance and different dynamics. And so yeah, that was that. That to me back then, I'm trying to think of anything else that really, you know, sprung board that decision. But it, it really, it really just was like, I mean, these things happened very quickly for me. Like I was at Austin Willard's house, one of my childhood best friends. I had gone to see Brandis in Nashville. It fell apart. And then I have this encounter and I felt like that it, that if I went to law school that it was going to, that I would end up with a lot of fancy stuff and things like that, but then I would have wasted my life. And so I was really convicted with, if that's what you would do, if money didn't matter, then that's what you need to do if money does matter. And so I literally, I just Googled nonprofits in la I found the Dream Center. I saw that they have this internship where they'll house you and feed you. And I applied. And it, it was all pretty quick. Like if I make a decision, I make a decision and I go with it. I don't, I may think about it a lot down the road, but in the moment I just go and I do it and I trust my gut. And so it really was kind of a quick decision of this is what I'm gonna do. It took me a little bit of time to get in there. And so I had been a part of a product called Enlighten. There was these strips that go into your mouth, kinda like Listerine Strips, that it was a new delivery system for like electrolytes and energy melatonin. And that started in my backyard in Tulsa where my family lived. And I'd been a part of the original studies at Duke. And so I did that in the meantime for about nine months. But the whole time I was just waiting to get into the Dream Center and then finally I got in and as soon as I got in, you know, I end up just. Loading up my truck and driving out there.

Robin: 37:09

So it kind of blows my mind a little bit that there's a wait list to get into the Homeless Volunteer Center.

Joshua: 37:15

You know, I think that organizations like that, this is a huge organization. They had 700 people living there. They were giving out like, I think a million or two ma million pounds of food every month. They had over 200 different organizations that were operating inside of the umbrella. You're also dependent on a lot of volunteers. They have a very low amount of paid staff. Y you're probably not dealing with the best and the brightest that are running the organization. I think a lot of stuff just slips through the cracks. So, you know, truthfully, I had kind of had an altercation. I write about it in hustle of the one of, you know, sleeping in the field, running from the police in Lamar, Missouri. And after that I kind of realized, I need to get to a place. And so I made some phone calls and I knew that a kid that I had grown up with, his dad was very close with the Armand Hammer family. And the Armand Hammer family gave a lot of money to the Dream Center. And so I was like, Hey, can he make a phone call to get me in? Because I don't know who's waiting in line in front of me. You know, like, but I just, I, and, and that was what got me to the top of the list. You will. Mm-hmm. But I think really more importantly, it's just a bureaucratic organization where things get lost and it's just a, it's just a bureaucracy. They're not even meaning to, it just got lost in the shuffle.

Robin: 38:46

So what were the greatest lessons that we started learning at the shelter?

Joshua: 38:51

The biggest lesson from the shelter was, so I was on the food truck. And so our job was we'd go get breakfast and then we come and we were supposed to wait and let the people in the discipleship program clean out the truck. And that was really hard for me. I stood out like a sore thumb at the Dream Center. People kind of knew that I had gone to good schools and that I, you know, came, my dad was a doctor. Like I, I, it was a weird dynamic socially, so I was more hyper aware of a situation where I'm sitting and waiting for the people in the discipleship program that are typically, they're coming off of, you know, intense drug addiction and that's why they're in the program or some other. Situation like that, kind of been recommended to come there, maybe from the judicial system and or just kind of came up through kind of extreme circumstances in one way or another and end up in this, in this program. So that dynamic, I've always had the ability to kind of feel what people are feeling towards me and others and know what they're feeling and thinking towards others. And that dynamic was just so challenging for me that I was like, I'm not gonna sit here and watch these guys that can't talk to you. So because of watching how those social interactions were playing out, I, I never felt good about sitting for 30 or 45 minutes and waiting for the disciples to get there and let them clean the truck. Many of the other people that were in my role on the food truck, they were completely okay with that. There was another guy who actually, actually happened to be an athlete as well. He played basketball in college, and I was like, Terrell, we're going clean the trucks. I, I don't care what they say, and so we're gonna do, and so we started doing that and it caused a big riff. Some of the guys that were. On our team, they went to the boss. And the boss. I remember him pulling me aside and being like, dude, you can't do this. Like this is you know, this isn't an Ivy League school. This isn't a Fortune 500 company. We do things differently here. This is a ministry, right? And I was like, oh, cool. So Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. I think that we can wash out the trucks for ours. And at that point, you know, this guy was a former gang member. You know, intellectually he was up against it. He, he doesn't know what it's like to try and argue against somebody like me. So this doesn't go well. His only, you know, rebuttal is you're not gonna last for very long here. And I, I felt good in the sense of like, what. I was doing, and you know, the kind of logic behind it of like, look, we're not gonna wait for these people to do something that we're fully capable of doing. It's demeaning, it's disrespectful to them. I don't understand it, and I'm not just gonna go along with it because somebody in authority said that that's what it should be. But I go back to my room and I'm just kind of frustrated because I've just had so many of these encounters my entire life, right? It's just like one after the other, after the other, after the other. And I was thinking about getting tattoos on my forearms in the same spots on, on each side, kind of symmetrical. And one of them I knew was going to be Joshua 19. It's a verse. So I felt like God had planned in my heart as a nine year old. And so I thought, you know what I, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna reread that verse. And I had always memorized that verse as be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid for the Lord. Your God will be with you wherever you will go. And that day, in that moment, when I opened up this specific translation, it did not start with that. It started with, have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid for the Lord or God will be with you wherever you will go. And it hit very different of, look, I made you the way. I made you for a reason. And yes, you're gonna have a lot of of these encounters in your life. Nevertheless, have I not commanded you? Be strong, be courageous. And it was like, okay. And so I really leaned into that. Now again, there's been a. So much growth and maturation around the way that I interact with authority figures to this point in my life. But that was one of the most pivotal lessons for me of, look, I built you a certain way. And do things that other people won't do. All right. So

Robin: 43:55

he built us a certain way. We're now fear fearlessly being who we were born to be.

Joshua: 44:01

What was next one caveat with that, I don't think that, you know, I've had. For a significant portion of my life, people will would come to me and they'd say, you know, I think that you're being arrogant, or I think that you need to be more humble, and they, they may be correct. I always leaned back on and sometimes I would tell them God didn't plant one of those verses in my heart whenever I was nine years old. There's a very specific verse that he, for me, the same way that this is why I don't have programs that I do in coaching or speaking. I give people advice and I talk to people based off of who they are and their circumstances and they're wiring. I don't just give them generic advice of, Hey, I'm gonna walk you through this program. No, everything is different for each individual based off of who they are in their unique context. And so I don't tell everybody to do what I did in that way of, Hey everybody, have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid for the Lord. Your God will be with you wherever you'll go. No, that was a unique thing that was planted in my heart, that I have had people come up to me my entire life in different situations and hand me something or tell me something about that specific verse. So I felt like that was a unique message. Not that it's unique in the sense that nobody else has ever gotten that, but that that was unique to me. That's not general advice that I just give out to everyone. Right. In order to

Robin: 45:30

do what you just described requires a great amount of empathy to see the world through someone else's context, to see it through their pain. Where did that come from?

Joshua: 45:40

I, I think just a lot of the pain that I had had gone through. And then I also think that I, you know, have somewhat of, again, I, I don't know what you call it, I, the, the only way I've been able to describe it is it's something along the lines of being an empath, but also more like the mentalist, the show. The mentalist is the only thing that I've ever really seen that can articulate the way that my brain works. I think I observe so much. I don't actually like to talk that much. It's weird in settings like this cuz it's like, man, this guy never shuts up. But in most social sit situations, I just sit and observe. All I do is observe. I listen and I observe. And so very quickly, I pick up a lot of micro things that other people don't see. I listen specifically for certain words. I, I listen very, very well. I'll never forget Corey, who was the person that hired me to be the director of mental training for U C L A women's basketball. Couple years into that job, somebody asked her a question and she said, actually, you wouldn't think this, but Joshua's greatest strength is listening. She said, he's one of the best listeners I've ever known, and that's true. And I'm not only do I do that with listening, but I'm observing. And so that I, I, I don't, I don't know where that came from, whether it's just been developed or that was just a gift, but that's why pretty quickly, I only need two or three minutes with somebody usually to be able to know things about them, that they don't tell very many people and understand them in ways that are just. Different. And it's not a, it's not being psychic, it's just observing and processing a lot of stuff very quickly that other people don't typically process. and then I trust my gut. And I don't deviate from it. And it drives people crazy cuz we'll be like, you don't even know that person. And I'm like, oh, but do I, and I'm like, you don't know that person and you don't know A, B, or C. They're like, oh, well, they just misspoke. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, and different words mean different things. And especially when you're dealing with people that have been highly educated, I I, I pinned them down a lot of, no, you don't, you write things that impact our culture, or you write things that impact our laws. For the Supreme Court and Supreme Court briefs, you used the word, and now you're trying to backtrack with logic. But that word came from your heart. And I actually listen. And so I haven't described it the way you just did of being deeply present. But yes, that is what I do. And, and so.

Robin: 48:26

And I'm so sorry to interrupt. I mean, you are really describing perfect presence, which is the greatest gift you can give anyone. And also you're doing it without a confirmation bias. You're not trying to see something that's not there. And so when you're deeply present without a letting go, as much as the confirmation bias as we possibly can, you actually hear and see everything that's being said by that person and assessing it for what is, I love that, that's powerful skills.

Joshua: 48:51

Yeah, I Now, I will say that after that, you know, three to five minutes, two to three minutes, then obviously, you know, I've written a lot of stuff about, you know, the way our brains work and we're processing 11 million bits of information, but we're only conscious of around 40 of those bits. And so what determines that 40 bits that you see? Well, it's, you know, it's the deepest beliefs of your heart, and it's what you believe. So I, I'm sure that I have those biases that play in as well. But it's coming from actual observation, right? I think we have a really bad, bad, terrible disease in this country of listening to what people say instead of observing their actions and the specific words that they're using and what they're not saying, and we're not being deeply present and we're not deeply listening. And so, but I will say though, then once I have that belief that comes from observation, then, you know, I, I think it was Maya Angelo that said, when people show you who they are, believe them. Right? I'm still open and I will continue to observe, but I, but I already have a foundation that I'm working off of, and you're gonna have to move. Strongly in a different direction for that to change for me. But I'm sure that I'm still susceptible to that bias. But it is coming from that starting point of deeply observing, deeply being present in ways that I I, yeah, you're seeing their arc.

Robin: 50:25

You're seeing the arc of their life really rapidly, and you can Yeah. Once, once you see the arc, it's becomes very predictable. And to deviate from the arc means that they have new things that must have come in to stimulate a change. Yeah. Which is

Joshua: 50:37

you. And, and oftentimes, I mean, it, it sounds very egotistical, but oftentimes it is. And I am a huge friction point that, you know, whether it's, there's a guy at one of the country clubs that I've belonged to that there was it, there was a, you know, we butted heads and butted heads and butted heads until the point where I ended up writing a verything. But based off of observation of track record and laid it out very clearly, his behavior. And then there was change that's happened in the last three years. You know, slow, incremental, but it actually caused change. And that's really all I want. And even I've been dealing with a ton of physical stuff and having to, I think this week I'll see three different people to do PT and one lady puts me back together and then one guy, you know, for strength stuff. And so I have to do a lot of stuff around that. And I was really thinking about it last night. And a lot of it I think comes down to the way that I stand and move and sit. And nobody in my life has done what I do for people have come in and been like, you know, it's really unhelpful what you're doing right there, and that's gonna cause these effects and you need to do this instead. Well, that's a very uncomfortable conversation. And I also have had to learn as I've gotten older and more mature that you know, the difference between a guest and a pest is an invitation. And so you shouldn't just go walk around doing that. But there are times when I, I look back and I'm frustrated cuz I'm like, man, why I don't need to be in this position, but I'm in this position. Because no one in my life was like, Hey man, do you know that you always have your shoulders rounded like this? And like, you should maybe try and do A, B and C or you need to see this person, or like, Hey, let's put you on video and watch how you walk and watch how you stand and watch how you and just didn't have people like that. But that's gonna be friction. And most people, that just makes them so uncomfortable. And that's why you know, to change the world, you have to be socially disagreeable. Because if all you ever care about is people liking you and you don't have the courage to be disliked, then you're really never gonna cause. Significant change. So yeah,

Robin: 52:52

leadership has nothing to do with liking someone. And that's what you are, that's what you are doing. You're leading and, and by friction. I love it. So what was

Joshua: 53:02

next? Next is I go from living in the homeless shelter to living in the closet of a gym. And I live in the closet of a gym. That's right. I love this story too. Yeah. I lived in the closet of a gym for nine months. I was a sports director for a local church. Now they had offered me the option of move in with a host family, or we have this big closet and we could clean it out. And, and what did we think we

Robin: 53:28

wanna do at this point in our life still? Did we still have a direction or we're just, we're just gonna help?

Joshua: 53:32

No, at this point, it, it was love people serve, people provide value, and really based around that. The stuff that I learned at Duke was so transformative for me, and I was so frustrated that I had to get to Duke to learn it. Why isn't this being taught everywhere? Why isn't this being taught in underprivileged communities? Why? And everybody's like, oh, well you need to go get your sports psychology degree. And I'm like, why? I don't, I, I already know. If I just were to teach people the self-talk stuff, I learned the identity based off of name. So we don't. Need to go get a sports psychology degree, right. To be able to share your story, which is number one, what people want. And I wrestle with this with one of my close friends who also does a lot of speaking and he does a ton more of that than I do, but I, he always wants to be a researcher and he is like, I need the cutting edge research. And I'm like, bro, the thing that people care the most about is stories. Yeah. Nobody says, tell me a statistic, no little kid is running around. Daddy, mommy, tell me a statistic. No. Stories are trillion dollar industries. We learn through stories, tell them stories. It's not as much about, you know, these statistics. And so I knew that I had my story. Which was gonna mean more than anything. But then also that I could just go down the rabbit hole and read and study what was interesting to me and just keep going and learning and growing. I didn't need other people. I've never needed that. So when I had a 21 on my A C T, I basically flunked the three things. I don't even know what they are. One's math one's, probably science one is something else. And I had close to a perfect score in reading comprehension. I went 18, 18, 18 34 out of 36. So I knew that like reading had always been my thing. I don't, and I butted up against authority. So why go into a program that's gonna tell me what I need to read? Why not just take responsibility and read and study everything that was interesting to me and filter it through one my brain that, you know, I was with Chris Cuomo th this last week and he, he said to Mackey and I, he goes, boy, there are no incomplete thoughts with him. You know, like I, I think deeply, I, I want things to make sense, so I'm constantly wrestling with that. So, you know, you can't just tell me something and I'm like, oh, that's what it is. No, like I, I think deeply, I read and I study, so I don't need anybody else. And then I wanna take that. And what I wanna know is, and this is why I butt up against academia. I wanna go in the real world and I wanna know what practically works, right? I don't give a shit what your bullshit study says, and you think in this weird environment, no, I wanna know when I go to Sarah who is struggling with A, B and C as a division one athlete, what can I give her in terms of tools and cognitive behavioral therapy and meditation or mindfulness or whatever it is that's going to dramatically impact her life? That's what I want. I don't care what your, you know, pH PhD research says. I, I care what's actually going to help people. So we're living in the

Robin: 56:51

closet. Yep.

Joshua: 56:52

We got more reps. Yep. What was the next purpose? Living in the closet and going into, I started going into and training the athletes and the Watts housing projects of Imperial Court. So one of the toughest housing projects in the country where they filmed training day and I, that was my organization. I started a 5 0 1 that. Was just me going in there. Occasionally I'd have, there was a guy named Chaz Black that came in with me for a few months and helped me with training kids. And then Mari remember, and remember,

Robin: 57:22

I'm so sorry to interrupt. I remember, I think, was it the, the first class you actually had, you actually only had one person sign up, one student?

Joshua: 57:29

No. So that's, that's a little different. That was, I had three kids in the closet of the gym whenever I was doing stuff for the church. Right. And so had these three that, these three little kids that I was working with, and I was so frustrated. And there was one day I, I remember just yelling out at God, like, why do I only have these three little kids? Like I could help, you know, Kevin Duran, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, you know, Candace Parker, tiger Woods, you name it. Like I could help people who are the best in the world at their craft. Why do I only have Tommy, Billy and Eric and I got punched in the chest so hard with, until you value those three little kids the same way you would, people who are the best in the world, that you're at their craft, you will never work with people at that level. Love that. I call it the day that everything changed for me. Because I went from trying to, you know, oh, I wanna get to these people and I've got something that would be so helpful for people that are the best in the world to craft to, no, I need to do what Mother Teresa said, and be faithful in the small things for that's where your strength lies. And really just be faithful with that, which was in my hand.

Robin: 58:36

Love it. Oh my gosh, what a powerful chest pounding.

Joshua: 58:39

What was next from there? My mom came and stayed with me in the closet of the gym. And my mom, sorry. Sleep suit me at the, you know, in, in the closet we set up a, a, you know, a mattress on the, there was a a, what are those things called? Like an auditorium type of, you know, stage that she's on. Why did she come? Why did she come? Well, she just wanted to come visit, right? And, you know, she is the one who didn't want me to start my own thing. She wanted me to go work for somebody and, you know, work for an organization. So, I'm like, they were like, we're gonna get your mom a hotel. And I was like, oh no, you're not. I live in this closet. She's coming. I, I wanted her to come stay with me. I'm like, you're gonna come and be in this with me. You wanted me to do this. I'm doing it. I'm doing it for real. You're not staying in a hotel. You're, you're staying with me. And so then she didn't want me living in the closet anymore. And so she asked me to look for an apartment for her, but really that was gonna be a place that we could move into together. She ended up moving out. She moved up. My brother that has cerebral palsy, my middle brother ended up coming out as well. A little bit. Further down the road, but I ended up living with my mom for five years and just building my organization. And that was whenever I, you know, I created the first mental training apps in the world for basketball, soccer, and golf. Sleeping next to my little brother there's a picture that I have somewhere of, I'm on my knees beside the bed, my computer is on the bed, and that's where I'm recording the MP3s for the, the apps. And so, yeah, I lived with her for five years while doing all of this and trying to build this organization, which is amazing. Let's

Robin: 1:00:33

talk briefly about

Joshua: 1:00:34

the apps. So this is something

Robin: 1:00:37

it, I mean, once again, the, the creativity that pours outta your brain and the never, never say, I can't mode, tell me about these apps that you were literally the first one that did anything like

Joshua: 1:00:49

this. Well, so again, like all I've ever done this, you know, I think I'm a very strange blend of an entrepreneur and an artist. And so I was looking around for what are the tools. I always tried to ask myself this question, what do I wish that I would've had perfect? What do I wish that my leaders would've known? What do I wish my coaches would've known? What, what tools do I wish they had? And so I've tried to be, create any of those things that I thought would be helpful. Well, this was, you know, around the time that apps had started to come out and nobody had done this. So I saw an inefficiency in the marketplace and I was like, I wonder if, if we could do that. And I, and truthfully, what the other thing that had spurred that is one of my best friends Michael Carillo, his fiance at the time said, I wish I could put you in my pocket. And I was like, huh. And then another person said something along the same lines of, oh, you should make apps. And I'm like, I have no money and I have no tech background, like, you know, all the technical issues we've had just trying to record this, right? That's me. Like, it's not you, it's me. Like I'm terrible at technology. So I'm like, what? I had one client at the time, I shared the idea with him and he goes, I think I could help you make those. And so I was like, well, I have no money to pay you. He's like, that's okay, I'll do it for equity. So he ends up, you know, doing the tech side of it. I end up just recording these mp3 s and it was fascinating because I was seeing the impact that they were having in people's lives. Cuz a lot of the people in the beginning that, that bought them were just friends and family that didn't play. Whatever it was, maybe it was soccer that I came out with first and they were using the guided imagery and they were like, this is helping me in these other areas of my life. And I was like, oh, wow. But then it was a, to me that was just a calling card. I never wanted to be a tech company. I ended up taking them off the market probably five years down the road. Now we're used to streaming, right? Back then we weren't used to streaming. Right. So it was very frustrating to people and they'd be like, why don't these, you know, if I don't have access to wifi, I can't. And, and I'm like, well, I, I don't know man. Like this is, this is what I got. This is what you got. But it was really more a calling card for me that I, I knew I didn't have a sports psychology degree. And so, well, if you create the first mental training apps in the world for basketball, soccer, and golf, that can be something that can help you get into some of these places to do workshops, speaking engagements, things like that. So that's really what that was about. But then the, I did the exact same thing when I M G Academy wanted me to head up mental conditioning and leadership. So I knew that I was one of, let's call it 10 guys in the country, but I also knew that there was no go-to book in sports psychology. People would use Mind Gym, but Mind Gym was a lot of baseball stuff. And then there was a couple other books, but there was no consensus go-to book in sports psychology. If I M G Academy is trying to get you to head up mental conditioning and leadership, then you probably have the capacity to do this. And if I had taken that position, they would've owned my work product, which was really the driving force. So I came home, I don't leave bed except for maybe 15 minutes a day to use the restroom and get some food. I don't leave bed for two months and I just. Right. I read all my books on my phone and at first, oh wow. The chop wood carry water was called Start here. Mental training finally made simple. I sent a draft of that to John Gordon. There was a 45 page fable inside of that, that was chop wood carry water. He says, throw out the rest of this. This is the book. Expand it. This is, this is the gold. I was like, I write real books, man. I don't write fables. And he just stayed on me like a good big brother for two weeks. And then finally I took his advice and ended up, you know, doing that. But that really was, that There was a lot of, you know, most stuff that I do, there's not a ton of intentionality behind it of like, people say, oh, you need to, when you're starting out to write a book, it needs to be, you need these archetypes, you need to focus on your audience. Like, I don't do any of that, but this one specific instance, I was trying to write the go-to book in sports psychology because I just knew it didn't exist and I kind of got lucky timing, a lot of other things that that's what ended up happening with it. And I also wrote my memoir at the, at the same time, both kind of out of fear and the just, there was fire to my feet in terms of if I take this position, they're gonna own these ideas and stuff that I've come up with. And so I need to just try and get this all published so that I have copyrights on it.

Robin: 1:05:43

What I found so interesting is the thing I I love most about your books is the fables you've created, which is the thing you struggled, you know, that you didn't wanna do the most. The other compelling thing too is, and this is what I want people to take away from this, and so if you come up with a couple things for'em, You keep mentioning that it's about sports psychology, and that's what you did this around, but Joshua, you know, it's a lot more than sports psychology. This is stuff that applies to every single aspect of our lives. I mean, every single title of your book is so intentional and has such a fantastic message to it. So, for those tuning in and listening, for, for takeaways in life, what are a couple things people could start doing now to give themselves that mental resilience and toughness and courage in themselves to do something

Joshua: 1:06:26

unusual? I think the two biggest things I would say are, number one, do not allow your identity to be wrapped up in what you do. As soon as you allow your identity to be wrapped up in what you do and you, and you buy that lie and you believe that lie, it is gonna cause all sorts of incremental problems down the road because let's just use again. Well, I'll try and use a different one. If you believe that you're a lawyer, a lot of decisions that you make in your life are gonna be filtered through that lens. If you believe that you are a doctor and you tell people, I'm a doctor, and that's your identity, it's not that. It's like, sure, you're a doctor, but when you believe that that's your identity, then that's where it causes problems. No, you happen to be a person that serves people in helping them with medicine and things that you know, whether you do surgery, whatever it is, you are A, you are a human being who happens to do A, B, or C, or you are a human being, a child of God who happens to be really good at dribbling a basketball or hitting a golf ball, or whatever it is that you do. But as soon as you allow your identity to be wrapped up in what you do, you're basically, when I start speaking engagements, especially to young people, I always go to Home Depot and I buy like a 12 foot thick chain, and I start them by wrapping that around my neck and telling them that if you believe this lie, that your value comes from what you do and not from who you are. That it's like trying to go through life and perform with this wrapped around you. There's no way you're ever going to allow your potential to come through when you believe those lies. The second thing, again, that's super practical is, you know, I just finished, the comfort crisis. Hmm. And. That is a book that in puts a lot of research and he's a practitioner. It's why I, I love him. Yeah. The guy that wrote, stop Missing Your Life, love him because just like me, they're practitioners. They're actually in the trenches. They're doing this stuff and the backdrop of the comfort crisis. You know, he's going to Alaska for 30 days to live with these two dudes and hunt, love it and live in the wild and they have no help outside of themselves. Yeah. For 30 days. And so, but he puts all this research around do hard things and that we have become a society that is so obsessed with making things easier and more comfortable on ourselves. And there are aspects where that's beautiful and amazing and great, but if that's what we always do, it has all these unintended consequences that are. Really, really affecting our world and us individually. And so just going towards hard, moving towards hard, that oftentimes if we will do that, it is gonna open up so many things for us that it is against every natural, you know, impulse in our body. We want to move towards comfort. We are creatures of comfort, but when we do that, it causes all these unintended, unintended consequences. And so if we actually want an easier life, we need to kind of move towards sprint towards hard. Yep. And you know, it's like I've had so many people come to me and be like, oh, I wanna do what you do. And I'm like, great, here are all the books that I read. The Dream Center still takes applications. The, the, you know, many housing projects across the country are gonna let you come in and add value for free. Go do it. Go count the stones. Not one single person has done that. They all say that they want that, but they don't actually want to do it. What they want is they want the fruit of your life. They don't want the labor, they don't want to do this stuff. They just want the rewards. And the ironic part to me is that most of the rewards have never been the thing that's driven me. Sure. I like them. It's nice, but like, I mean, one great example is people are like, oh man, I bet you get to go to so many sporting events and you can get free tickets. And I'm like, sure, maybe I could, but I'd rather be playing. I'd rather be doing the thing. Like I, I wanna, I wanna be in it and it's because of that, that I have the other thing. And so, yeah, just doing hard stuff, you know, whether that's, you know, I love. Cold tubs. And I've gone into Norway with Intermountain Expeditions, some of the people that have trained by Whim Hoff, and I love going into win in the dark. Yeah. Doing that, doing that hard work in the dark and knowing that that's going to pay off in ways, in terms of groundedness, in terms of just belief and conviction that I've been forged in the fire. And I, I don't have to worry about luck. I hate when people say good luck. Like, I don't need luck. I've trained, my brand is called trained to be clutch. Yep. So either you, you did the work and you're prepared and you're ready or you didn't. But it's not about luck. It's did you do the work? Did you not do the work? Embrace

Robin: 1:11:54

the journey, not the destination. Absolutely. Love it. Sure. Joshua, what's a few things I might have forgotten to ask you that you wanted to make sure you shared before

Joshua: 1:12:03

we go? No, I would just love to do this again. I mean, if this, this resonates with your. Oh hell yeah. You know, people that, the people that listen to your podcast, you know, I think that if we go into like, the stuff that I talk about a lot in, you know, palm, the stone of authentic vulnerability and, you know, linguistic intentionality and suicide and trauma and stuff that, like you had so many threads

Robin: 1:12:30

and suicide and trauma is one of them in each one of your books of dealing with death and loss. I mean, you have tremendous things, so Absolutely. I would love to have you book. We Could.

Joshua: 1:12:39

I'm Back because it's, it's just not, it, it doesn't get talked about. LA last night is truly one of the first times I've ever really seen it done the way I did it in like a multimedia form in auto, I think is what it's called. It's Tom Hanks' new movie. Yeah. Saw It's on Netflix. Right on on Netflix, and it deals with. Suicide. Very, very in your face the entire time. And it's amazing. I was bawling at the end of it. I looked over at my girlfriend and I was like, you're crying. I'm not crying. You know? And I I'm so with you because that was matter of

Robin: 1:13:12

fact. I, in the notes I took on your books, I, I identified that that thread you had in each of them, there was severe trauma. Then when I found out that you'd lost your brother, I could see what the, the spark and thread of that might've been, but like when you had the one where, it was the athlete and his best friend who apparently had everything in life from his perspective, commit suicide. Yeah.

Joshua: 1:13:34

That was, and by the way, crying in the book too, by the way, that's not me coming up with some intriguing storyline. I know that's based off of a real girl's life that everybody loved. It was the captain of our team that was running tracker cross country, I think it was at brown or Penn, and. What made Maddie run is the, is the book, and she buys gifts for all her friends and family. She goes to the top of the parking garage and jumps off. It. To me, it's the dirty little secret in life and sports, and it doesn't get addressed. It doesn't get talked about. People like me come in and all they focus on is performance. And based off of the things that I've lived and the trauma that I've lived, I, I just know, you know, my next book is gonna be called Finish Empty. What does it look like to live a truly successful life from a deathbed perspective? And it's, there's so many people, like winning isn't gonna matter when you're on your deathbed, right? The amount of money that you made is not gonna matter on your deathbed. And yet these are the things that we focus on while we're living. And so, again, based off of the crazy life that I've. You know, been, that's been forced upon me. I've just had to learn those lessons from a very young age and that's what's given me a very different perspective. But yeah, it's like this is real. This is people's real lives is our quality of life in the comfort that we've experienced, has done nothing but rise in the United States. So have the levels of depression, so have the levels of people that are, you know, medicated and that are taking their life and all these things. And so it's like we're missing something pretty fundamentally large. Yep. And I think it's because there's a lot of stuff that we're chasing that we're told is really important that will not matter on our deathbed, and it's causing all these issues along the journey who will

Robin: 1:15:35

cry at your funeral. Yep. Another good one, Robert Charma. I love his stuff too. Yeah. Yep. Joshua. We're gonna do this again. If you're up for it. I will do a deeper dive on each one of these things. I can't thank you enough for coming on and dropping beautiful truth bombs on the world and on the audience, and it's been such a pleasure having you on, man.

Joshua: 1:15:56

Thank you so much for having me, Robin.

Robin: 1:15:58

Thank you for tuning into another episode of Forged By Trust. Remember, if you want to forge trust, it's not how you make people feel about you that matters. It's how you make them feel about themselves. If you're interested in more information about how it can help you forge your own trust, building communication, interpersonal strategies as your speaker, your coach, or as a communication interpersonal expert and strategist. Contact me@www.peopleformula.com. I'm looking forward to sharing my next Forge by Trust episode with you next week when we chat with world renowned author and professional coach Michael Bunge Steiner, as we do a deep dive and discover how to work with almost anyone.