Expert Listening w/ Allison O'Brien

🌟 Expert Listening with  Allison O'Brien🌟 

🤔 Allison O'Brien is a communication and leadership development consultant who excels in helping teams overcome conflict, improve accountability, and enhance collaborative decision-making. With a focus on the science of listening, she delivers training and coaching that leads to higher profits, reduced stress and supervision costs, and improved outcomes for her clients. Allison has a special niche working with managers to evolve them into influential leaders. As a Master Trainer with ECHO Listening Intelligence, she has built a global network of listening experts, certifying Practitioners in 10 countries across 4 continents. Allison O'Brien is dedicated to driving positive change and growth in individuals and organizations through effective communication and leadership development.

🌟 What we chat about:

👉 - Listening Intelligence
👉 - The Power of the “Pause”
👉 - Agility in Conversations

🌟 Reach out and Connect with Allison:
http://echolistening.com
allison@echolistening.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-o-brien1/

Pre-Order my Latest Book: "Unbreakable Alliances: A Spy Recruiters Authoritative Guide to Cultivating Powerful & Lasting Connections" HERE

Unlocking the Power of Trust: Keynote Speaker Robin Dreeke Shares Secrets to Creating Allies - Robin is the former Chief of the FBI's Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. With over 30 years of experience in recruiting spies and building trust, Robin is the world-renowned speaker you need. Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn from a true expert. Contact us now to book your event! Click HERE to book a time to chat.

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😃 Check out Robin's Speaking, and Training Services HERE.

Transcript

Allison: 0:04

Every conversation, every interaction is an opportunity to practice, to be present, to shift, to be malleable and agile. So we never get to the place where we're done.

Robin: 0:16

Welcome to the Forged by Trust podcast. I'm your host, Robin Dreeke, professional speaker, former U. S. Marines, spy recruiter, best selling author, and your trust and communication expert coming up next on the Forged by Trust podcast. Forged by Trust. Forged by Trust.

Allison: 0:28

the root of all resistance is fear. And when you're paralyzed by fear, it's an endeavor you have to undertake for the growth of your soul. And so what I know that I want to do with my work is I want to teach something so that people on the receiving end walk away with something that allows them to live their life better, either to be happier, to be more empowered, to be more connected, to love more, whatever that is.

Robin: 0:54

The Forged by Trust podcast is a show where we explore the essential skill of forging trust for building an innovative culture and exceptional leadership. Join us as we delve into the behavior skills and communication techniques required for success and learn from the best in the industry. Our guests include spies, spy recruiters, master interrogators, best selling authors, thought leaders, and innovators who will share their insights on building teams, Partnerships and exceptional leadership by Forging Trust. Today's episode, Expert Listening, The Underrated Superpower, is with Master of Listening Intelligence, Allison O'Brien. Allison is a communication and leadership development consultant who excels in helping teams overcome conflict, improve accountability, and enhance collaborative decision making. With a focus on the science of listening, she delivers training and coaching that reduce stress and supervision costs, and improve outcomes for her clients. Allison has a special niche, working with managers to evolve them into influential leaders. As a master trainer with Echo Listening Intelligence, she has built a global network of listening experts, certified practitioners in 10 countries, For continents, Alison O'Brien is dedicated to driving positive change and growth in individuals and organizations through effective communication and leadership development. During the episode today, we talk about listening intelligence, the power of the pause. and agility in conversations. Hello Allison and welcome to Forged by Trust. I can't thank you enough for

Allison: 2:23

coming on. Yeah, thank you Robin for, for reaching out. I couldn't be more excited to be here.

Robin: 2:30

And it really is the greatest topic of all time to me, is what your skill set is as an expert listener. I'll, and I'll let you take us on the journey of that, but that's what I'm really curious about is, we all have these arcs of life that start when we're really young and it kind of gives us our passion. A lot of times we're not even aware of it earlier in life until we kind of discover it later on, but I'm curious. What was that spark, do you think, all those years ago when you were younger that kind of started that career of becoming, or not even just a career, just a lifestyle of becoming an expert listener?

Allison: 3:08

Oh, okay. It's a great question. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause for one second. I don't know That I would call myself an expert listener.

Robin: 3:22

Of course you wouldn't, but I am, so that's why you have to take it for granted. So continue then.

Allison: 3:27

And here's why. I would say that in some circumstances, I really hope that people walk away from a conversation with me and feel that I have been an excellent listener or an expert listener to and for them. And I know, unfortunately, despite my desire to provide that to everyone, because I care, I know that there are times where I fall short of really truly being an excellent or expert listener to some other people. And maybe that's my level of distraction. Maybe that's whatever it is they're speaking about. I'm not, you know, passionate about whatever that is, that title that, you know, we anoint of excellent listener, expert listener. I don't think we can give that to ourselves. That's actually our friend, Michael Reddington, who said that that's, that was something that we can't anoint ourselves. It has to be given to us by By others, by our conversational partners. So that said, I can't call myself an expert listener. What I would say is that I'm an expert in the science of listening or. The habit of listening.

Robin: 4:52

That's good. The habit of listening. So Alison, all the things you just shared require a huge amount of the most important thing I think we all need to have to become an expert listener. That is great humility. Yeah. And so part of that opening question then will be, when do we discover that we need this humbleness to become these great listeners?

Allison: 5:22

Oh, you know, the first thing that comes to mind, honestly, when you say that, when you went way back, you know, what, what was it in the arc? I am the youngest of three. I have two older brothers, considerably older than, than I am five and a half and almost seven years older than I am. And I grew up in a really chaotic house, meaning not, not trauma, not abuse, nothing like that, but chaos. Meaning loudness. Conversations that happen simultaneously. People talking at the same time. Lots of interrupting. Feeling pressured to get the message out very quickly before you lose the opportunity to share what it is you had to say. Also that feeling of at times, no one really wants to hear what I have to say. So, I think that was a bit of a theme of, or throughout my life, is this, you know, this feeling of, I have to be very, very clear in my communication, otherwise it won't be well received and it won't be, be heard. And so there was a period of time, I think, where there was certainly a little bit too much thought about how to express myself and how, and, and fear of how it would be received. I'm curious

Robin: 7:00

So as you described it, the images I'm getting, since we're talking about images, was of a very high tempo home life. and constantly keeping that high tempo in order to be heard, be seen, be expressive. But listening requires the opposite side of that dichotomy. It requires you to be slower, to be present and to hear. When did you think you started developing the skill to kind of, or the awareness of needing to dial that back? Or was that always intrinsically in you?

Allison: 7:33

Definitely was not intrinsically in me. I think I spent the bulk of my life and, and In my adulthood, even waiting to speak, waiting to offer a suggestion, an opinion, a perspective. I really don't think that the patience aspect of communication showed up for me until I got deeply into the work that I do and started to really understand the value of the pause and letting a conversation organically unfold. and listening in order to pick up on subtleties and also information or facts that would really inform a valuable contribution versus the first thought that has been inspired. So I, I don't think that this patience was conscious until I really started studying this work more and more in depth. getting

Robin: 8:44

more and more reps in as we became aware later in life, no doubt.

Allison: 8:49

100%. It's I, I often make the analogy between listening and honing the skill of listening and practicing yoga, because when we practice yoga, we never get to the point where we don't need to step on the mat anymore. We never get to that point where it's okay, I've accomplished everything there is. To accomplish, because every time you enter a posture, it's a practice, it's a presence, it's refining something you've done many, many times. I think it's the same with listening. Every conversation, every interaction is an opportunity to, to practice, to be present, to shift, to be malleable and agile. So we never get to the place where we're done. And we've achieved this specific level of skill that we could attribute to expertise, so to speak. It's

Robin: 9:55

a journey. There is no doubt. All right. So we, we kind of gave a overarching overlay there and I gotta tell you for anyone listening, go back and listen to all that again, Alison gave so many nuggets that were so well spoken and laid out right there that I'm going to listen to them multiple times again, too, because they're very profound statements in. in the first like five or ten minutes that were really deep. With that, let's go back again to that original arc. What do we think we're going to do? So here we are, we're in high school ish. What path did we think we're going to walk back then?

Allison: 10:30

Yeah, yeah. So back in high school, Robin, I felt everything deeply. I felt the injustice of the world. I felt the suffering of people across the world. I, as a senior in high school, was the president of the social services club

Robin: 10:53

Where did you grow up?

Allison: 10:54

Yeah, grew up in Rhode Island. Yeah, in Kingston, Rhode Island. I went to high school in Providence. I went to a very small college prep high school called Wheeler in Providence.

Robin: 11:06

And also one more thing you don't have to give your specific age. Can you give a, a, a year, like a, a, a five or 10 year year bracket of when you went to high school? I am

Allison: 11:15

going to give you. I am 52 years old. Okay. I have no, no shame in, in saying that. I feel 20 ish. Like I just, you know, graduated. This is our generation.

Robin: 11:30

Yes, I know I'm with you. Keep going.

Allison: 11:33

Yeah. Yeah. I just had a baby and she's 23 years old. Right. 1988, 89 ish is when I graduated from high school. And I, like I said, I, I felt. the weight of the world and I wanted to make an impact. I felt the heaviness of kids in Africa that didn't have textbooks. So I, where do you think this

Robin: 11:56

weight came from? What kind of things were you exposed to? Was it from your parents? Was it from school? Was it from, I mean, the news wasn't really big back then, you know, like CNN had just been like barely invented. So where do you think all that weight came from that information?

Allison: 12:12

That is a great question and honestly, it's, it's not one that I've considered deeply. The first thing that comes to mind is potentially being second generation to this country from immigrant grandparents who landed here in 1939 from Vienna, Austria. So yeah, Holocaust survivors. And, you know, I do think that on a visceral cellular level, having that in your lineage creates a heaviness, potentially.

Robin: 12:58

So your grandparents were Holocaust survivors?

Allison: 13:01

Correct. Yes, my mother's parents. Yeah. Wow. That

Robin: 13:04

That's a huge factor in, in. in context to how we see the world, and so you as a family were, were just infused in this more so than most.

Allison: 13:19

And so, you know, I've never made that connection before between the, the awareness of suffering and wanting to alleviate it. I, I've never made that connection. I don't, if I had more time to think about it, maybe that wouldn't have come up for me, but that was just, you know, the, the, the first thing that came to mind, but I don't, I don't know. I, I, I think that at that time, while I was Very well respected. I was, you know, I had a very small class. We, there were only 61 of us in my graduating class felt very much on the surface, a part of things, but inside, I always did feel a little different. I knew that I felt things. at a deeper level at times than my peers did. I felt a connection to human suffering in a way that I, I don't, I didn't observe that other people felt or talked about. So I, I had this, I think, connection to people and wanting people to have something that allowed themselves to live a better life. From, I had that, strong desire to be part of something like that from a very young, young age. So that was the, the beginning. And I, and so I went to a college in Ohio called Oberlin College, where the, the student body was very committed to service. very liberal in terms of ideology. What

Robin: 15:19

did you go there to study or

Allison: 15:20

want to do? I went there because I, well, one thing I really wanted to get as far away from Rhode Island as I could get. I needed to spread my wings and I knew the quality of education that I could get there. I'd also been on campus and I just felt this is the place. For me, it didn't really occur to me to consider what I really wanted to study. Right. I played field hockey. I had a really good friend that had gone there that was two years older than me. It just felt like the place that I belonged. That said, if I had a do over, I would think a little bit more about what it really was that I wanted to study, and I would have done things differently, but I ended up majoring in anthropology at first, and one of my, my favorite majoring was in Cultural Anthropology. I, I also loved Epidemiology.

Robin: 16:31

What's Epidemiology?

Allison: 16:33

No, the, the human component that creates. disease in a, in a culture or in a tribe, for example. So the long and the short of it is that anthropology is not what I wanted to do for a career. What really inspired me, it was, I had to pick And when I really understood that this was not of deep interest to me and really my passion was in exercise physiology, exercise science, I did end up changing or transferring to school in Colorado, to the University of Colorado at Boulder. to study kinesiology and exercise physiology. aNd that did not set the stage or the foundation for what I do now, but that was just one of the stepping stones.

Robin: 17:28

You don't see the connection between humans, humans, humans, humans.

Allison: 17:35

Yes, but this was much more of, from the physiological standpoint, being so curious to understand what happened in the human. Body specifically with exercise science.

Robin: 17:49

So you were curious about humans. You just didn't understand what part of it you were curious about yet.

Allison: 17:54

Correct. And I also didn't understand at the time that innately I was a teacher. Right. And that throughout every component of my career, there has been some aspect of teaching that has gone along.

Robin: 18:17

There's been a thread. All right. So we go to Colorado. We may, we change our major up. We're focusing on the body a bit more. What was it like and what was next?

Allison: 18:28

Yeah. So I graduated with a degree in exercise physiology, kinesiology, and I spent about 10 years. in the fitness industry, in teaching, training, leadership club management, consulting, sales. And throughout that, I think is where it became even more apparent to me that this human component, what drives us, What is our motivation in terms of getting what we say we want? And what is it that we're willing at times to shift, to change, in order to really achieve what it is that we want? That became pretty clear to me. That was a focal point that I could help people in that. Uncovering what it was. that they were willing to sacrifice in order to get this gain that was so meaningful.

Robin: 19:42

So we're doing this for 10 years. That's 10 years of reps, which they say about 10 years, 10, 000 repetitions is the mastery level. So basically you're on your journey. You've got a mastery level of this. What was next?

Allison: 19:58

It's so funny how sometimes the things that we just don't expect show up for us and land. in our lap, right? And then, you know, it creates the path. So my next path, oddly enough, Was in mortgage lending. Yeah, I know. Did you see the connection there? Did you see that one coming?

Robin: 20:26

Yeah, I want to see it. There's got to be one. Or a life rep that lets us know that that's not the path. Which was it?

Allison: 20:35

Yeah. No, what's, what's incredible is that the opportunity arose. What's, what's really funny is I had worked with someone in, the fitness industry who ended up going into mortgage lending. When my husband and I, at the time, were buying our first house, my daughter was almost two years old and my husband at the time worked 48 hours shifts as a firefighter paramedic. And this gentleman, Todd, he he said, boy, you know, Allison, you would be so great with your personality, your level of commitment, your, you'd be so great in this industry. I would love for you to come work with, with me and be on my team. And I said, absolutely no way. There's no, I have no interest at all. His office, and I would have to go into an office every day. His office was a solid 50 minute commute. from where we lived. I had a two year old. I had absolutely no interest in quotas and meeting quotas, et cetera. And I said, yeah, thank you. I don't care about the money. It's not worth it to me. Quality of life. So I said no to that. Well, fast forward, probably a year later, I had a client, a training client who owned a mortgage company. And just making conversation, I said to her during one of our sessions, I, I said Oh, it's so funny. You know, someone tried to get me to get into your industry a couple of years ago. And I, I said, no they told me I'd be great. You know, this, that, and the other. And she said, Oh, you would be, you should come work for me, work with me. I'll train you. I'll the, and she was down the street and she said, you could. Do this five hours a month if you wanted to and long and the short of it is I said yes and I was immediately incredibly successful. And what did they see in

Robin: 22:57

you? Cause they both saw something that they thought was a great fit. What are they seeing in you?

Allison: 23:05

I, you know, I think genuine interest in people, genuine interest in people and a commitment to providing the highest level of service. I think that was a big part of it, but because of that genuine desire to, to help, to be of service, to provide to give, I think that was, that was it. yOu know, and there was a period of time where it was perfect. You know, it really was a great opportunity for me to provide a service that helped a lot of people. And I was, like I said, I was very successful. I, I made more money than I ever thought that I would. Truly. It wasn't challenging for me from the perspective of getting business, engaging with people, providing knowledge, providing learning. Some of my favorite clients to work with were women going through the divorce process, believe it or not. And, and really where that was so rewarding to me was to be able to provide. knowledge around a subject that so many of them had never had any experience with. Yes, they showed up at the closing table and they signed their name to legal documents, but they had no idea really about the process. why the decisions were made, how they were made, what the impact or implications were. They just showed up and signed their name because they were married. So in being able to provide this depth of knowledge to someone that they were going to need moving forward for the rest of their life and empower them in that way was really satisfying to me. So there's a

Robin: 25:16

period, there's a thread of teaching again. That's been, as you said, what were you learning about yourself during this time period? You think

Allison: 25:29

this gets a little vulnerable here's what I learned as the industry started to shift a little bit and be, it became much more fear based compliance based, which of course there, there are great aspects to that. But there was some lack of common sense at times, and it just became much more challenging to help people. Who could be helped. I don't want to say easier because I never shy from difficulty or hard work, but the lack of common sense at times that we were up against was very stressful. And this idea of not being able to help someone who truly needed help and met the basics, that was very stressful for me. At the same time, I was. I was a mom to young children and working constantly. Even more than the number of hours I was putting in, I was lacking presence with my children almost at every given waking moment because I had so much focus on work. And I felt like a person that was a phony. Every day I was, I was. Because I would profess this value of family. My kids are my very most important thing to me. Above and beyond anything else. And while we were playing Legos, I couldn't help But think about work and wanting to go to my computer and get to it and fulfill an obligation to someone else. And so I was very aware at all times of this disconnect between what I profess as my priority and my value and how I was living or showing up, which seemed to be in conflict with that. To the point where I was so aware of myself at times in conversations with my kids. Where they would be excitedly telling me about something. And I knew that I was listening to them with this much of my focus and attention, just enough to ask a vague question. So they would continue talking while I was thinking about something else that was work related. So what I was learning about myself through this process is that I felt really inauthentic and I was ashamed. And I knew at some level, or I had this awareness that at some level, if I didn't make some kind of change and be more, become more in alignment with who I wanted to be, that I would get sick. I really truly believe that if I didn't make a change and I didn't reduce that stress and that disconnect between who I wanted to be and who I professed that I was. And who I actually was at that time that I would get cancer and I would die. I really, truly believed that. And I didn't know what was next. I didn't feel like on paper, I looked like I was someone who could be hired. I didn't know what I wanted. I was lacking passion. I didn't have any direction really. So I knew I wanted to make a change. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I didn't have any inspiration.

Robin: 29:34

I'm curious, what was the inspiration to make that change from what you were doing?

Allison: 29:43

So, I don't think I personally ever had that realization that you're talking about. And I think actually what I went through in some ways is, is very specific to a certain point that we reach in life at times, especially for women. I can't speak for men, but I know a lot of women that hit that. 38, 40 ish age. And they realize I'm not satisfied. I'M showing up every day and I'm getting a paycheck and I'm doing the work and I'm not necessarily aligned with my purpose and my values. I think that happens quite frequently. That said, I had this awareness that I was in misalignment and I wanted something different. And I didn't know what it was that I wanted, but I had this one and I've told the story several times now, but and I can picture exactly where I was sitting and the conversation that I was having with whom, and I was talking about this very topic of, I'm going to get sick. I need to make a change. I don't know what it looks like. And here's what I said. All I know is that at my core, I'm a teacher. And so what I know that I want to do with my work is I want to teach something so that people on the receiving end walk away with something that allows them to live their life better, either to be happier, to be more empowered, to be more connected, to love more, whatever that is. I want people to work with me and walk away with something that allows them to have a better life. And I said that to this friend of mine on the phone. And I said, I have no idea what that, that looks like, but it's teaching or facilitation in some way. And that's all I know. And I, I kid you not that I, I am convinced the universe was listening and said, okay, Alison, I'm going to provide you with an opportunity. I really hope that you are listening because this is an opportunity and. Tune in, because what happened was about a week or two later, I went to an event with a friend who had started her own consulting firm, communication consulting firm, about a year earlier. She had worked for a boutique company in Boulder that worked primarily inside of Fortune 500 companies. in workplace communication. And she had left that company and started her own consulting firm about a year earlier. And she said to me at this event, she said, Allison, you know, I'm at the point where I need to hire someone part time and man, I would love for it to be you. Cause You just, you, you do so well with this, this work. I'd love to work with you. Who hasn't

Robin: 32:54

said that to you in your life? I'm so sorry, because you're just this person that just is, you seem to be a magnet for people to want you, so, which creates great paths.

Allison: 33:05

Here's the thing, Robin, my very first job, they actually discouraged me, and I pushed to get that job. So, yeah, I really, really wanted to be a bus girl. I thought it was so glamorous because Jennifer Leportio, who I would see on the beach every day, had a different bathing suit and hoop earrings and she was so glamorous and she was a bus girl. So I really wanted that. And what's a bus girl do? What does a bus girl do? Clears tables, fills water. So, so in a restaurant. It's not, yeah, it's not, it's not glamorous. But I thought it was because she had the, you know, she had a Dunkin Donuts coffee every day on the beach. I couldn't afford that. So I, I applied to, for a bus girl position at the restaurant she, she worked at. And Alan Mascarelli, the owner of the restaurant, Antipasto's restaurant, Narragansett, Rhode Island. He said to me, We don't have any bus girl positions open. The only position that we have open is one that boys don't even want. So I can't offer you anything. And I said, well, what is it? And he said, well, it's the daytime dishwasher at lunchtime. And I said okay, well, is there an opportunity to move up, you know, if performance is really strong? And he said, you know, if an opening, if a bus girl opening opens up, that position opens up and you've done a really good job as a dishwasher, yeah, sure. I'll tell you what, I put everything into that, that horrible dish washing job. It's the worst job ever. And everyone should start their career there. I've done that job for sure, in a hot, sweaty, humid kitchen scraping cheese off a metal plate. Yes. So I was discouraged. I'm just saying I was discouraged from my first job. Not, not saying no, he, he certainly didn't say We really want you. Back to Dana. Did you get the bus girl

Robin: 35:13

job from there? I did. So he really wanted you for that

Allison: 35:18

job. I moved into that job. And the first I was there about a year and a half. Before you moved up? Oh no. Only about five weeks as the dishwasher. Yeah. See?

Robin: 35:31

That is, that's amazing. You remember such details so long ago about that.

Allison: 35:39

And I also remember, truly, my first night as a bus girl, I dumped eight glasses of water on one woman in a white linen shirt. I digress. But back to Dana saying, you know, I have this position, I'd love to hire you, it's only part time, and I know you'd never take it because I can barely pay anything. And I was intrigued and I said, well, you know, what are we talking about? And she told me what she could pay. And I laughed out loud and I said, yeah, you're right. There's no, no way that truly I was probably making more as a bus girl when I was. Ean than I would have been making part time working. So I said no in the moment and was driving home and was struck and started crying and knew that that was the direction that I wanted to go in career wise. And also knew that the fear around money was holding me back. That was the only reason I was saying no was that

Robin: 36:51

fear. You know, it's a profound, one of my most favorite questions that I love to ask people and you just answered it right there. If you feared nothing, what would you do? And you did what you feared. If you feared nothing, you'd take that job.

Allison: 37:07

Well, and here's why. It was as I had tears coming down my face as Arapahoe Road in Boulder County. I thought of One particular page in a book that I had read a couple of years earlier. Most of the book didn't, I didn't connect with it. It didn't resonate with me, but there was one, one page, two pages. on resistance and what is it that prevents us from doing that thing that we really want to do or feel like is, is the thing for us to do. And it said the, and I'm paraphrasing, but it said the root of all resistance is fear. And when you're paralyzed by fear, it's an endeavor you have to undertake for the growth of your soul. And I have always been someone who has been committed to personal growth. And, and stepping into discomfort. And so when I remembered that, when you're paralyzed by fear, it means it's an endeavor you have to undertake for the growth of your soul. It made it so clear to me that I had to take this job. I had to quit my job. I had to let go of a very, very stable. income and trust that I would be okay. And that said, it was the hardest 12 to 15 months of my life professionally. And through the lens of how I felt about myself, my self confidence, my capability, my credibility, I took such a pivot in my career. Knowing nothing about what I needed to know to be successful in consulting with leadership development, with communication training, I was literally starting from ground zero and could not be, for the first time in my life, immediately successful. in my job. I wouldn't say I was failing, but I wasn't succeeding in any way. I wasn't necessarily providing a lot of value to the company at that point. It took a solid 12 to 15 months to have enough depth of knowledge to be able to provide value, I think.

Robin: 39:52

And what did your, your new boss see the potential in that wasn't there yet?

Allison: 40:01

I think she had, she had always known my ability to communicate, to sell, which is really about having organic conversations that are inspired from genuine interest. That's the natural outcome. Of, of a conversation where you're genuinely interested in meeting a need is a sale, but you have to, when I, when I transitioned into this role, I had to have enough basic knowledge in order to be able to ask really good questions, to be able to be malleable in conversation and adjust. in conversation in order to be able to uncover needs and understand them and be able to answer to them. So I think she saw the potential in me as someone who would be a strong sales development representative, a facilitator of the work. but it took a long time for me to get there and, and I had never. in my professional arc to that point, not been immediately successful in a job, hit the ground running and exceeded expectations very quickly. This was the first time and there were at least three different instances where I thought I need to quit and get a real job and make money and Get benefits and, oh, that was the other piece of it, Robin. Was that three months into quitting my job and, and taking on this new role? With Echo Listening Intelligence. I've left my marriage as well. So yeah, I was the poster child for risk and change.

Robin: 42:09

No doubt. Oh my gosh. So Alison, on this journey of great challenges with Echo, you're learning a lot, but you brought a lot of life skills already into this. I mean, that's what she saw in you when she brought you on board. What do you think were maybe like two or three of the top skills that you really needed to hone in on that? Are the greatest challenges you think individuals and companies are dealing with that you had to really kind of transform yourself into being able to imbue yourself and then teach?

Allison: 42:43

You ask the best questions, Robin. Very quickly What occurred to me is the shift, I believe for me, from kind of floundering a bit into being successful was honing this skill of listening. And when I say honing the skill, it's what we were talking about earlier, that patience, that pause. allowing for information to be uncovered at a slower pace, more organically, before sharing my perspective or my opinion or my solution. So by slowing down, by not offering that first really inspired, brilliant idea that came to mind and injecting immediately, even interrupting, not necessarily always speaking, but even body language we can interrupt. When I learned this pause and patience, my impact and my credibility grew. When I would start to speak, what I spoke to and of was relevant and pinpointed and, and linear versus Inspiration. My brilliant idea. That was critically important for me, was practicing a slower pace. And this acknowledgement of, if it's a brilliant idea, it's still going to be a brilliant idea in five minutes. In 10 minutes, next week, when I follow up, it will still be brilliant if it's really grounded in the right depth of information gathering, if it has enough relevance to the problem, if it truly is a solution. So that was a really, really good question. That I think was my pivotal moment is when I started to practice the pause.

Robin: 45:14

So you, you develop your credibility by the pause. You are providing inspirational solutions that are pinpoint specific rather than just the shotgun because all these great ideas are flooding out of you. Yeah. What do you think makes the best delivery of that inspiration that will inspire someone to want to listen to it more than someone else?

Allison: 45:41

Great question. Here's what I think. When we can get really connected to our conversational partner, when I really try to pick up on what's important to you from the types of things that you talk about, the types of questions that you ask, the language choices that you make. I can start to clue in to how to share information with you in a way that makes it easier for you to listen and to take in and process that information. So if in conversation I pick up on, because I'm looking for it, that really what's important to you are metrics. You want to see very clearly evidence for why my solution will provide the specific outcome you're looking for. If I share my answer and pinpoint it to the metrics that are important to you, if I speak to what you want to listen to, and what is easiest for you to listen to, then you're naturally more engaged. Right. So I have to be really agile. I can't be about just speaking. I have to be about speaking to what is specifically important for and to you. Does that help?

Robin: 47:24

A hundred percent. You, if I could paraphrase and make sure I'm on point here is basically you take your inspirational core content solution and because you had the pause and you've been such a deep expert listener, you then package it specifically for delivery to them.

Allison: 47:43

I craft my message based on what I observe in the style and the way that my conversational partner shares information with me or asks me questions. Right. So if there's, there's a caveat to that, it's very comfortable for me to be in conversation with someone who just simply wants to build rapport. However, in a conversation where we're only focused on rapport, but we don't have any kind of connection to specific metrics, what an intended outcome is, some of the details, some of the data that I would need to address in making a presentation, then, then I have left something out. I've missed an opportunity if I simply rely on rapport to provide a solution. And so I may have to put some bumpers and some framework around a conversation with someone who shows up. the exact same way that I do that's very comfortable in terms of relational listening and rapport building around a topic or an idea. So there's a little complexity to

Robin: 49:05

it. It's taken the paint by number of do X, Y, and Z into that level of an art form. And when you create art for an individual, it's very specific to them. Using years repetitions to get that art to that level. That they, that everyone that you touch will appreciate that

Allison: 49:27

art. I talk a lot about agility. That I think as You know, a listener as a partner in conversation, as a partner in life, as a parent, as a child, whatever that is, anytime we have an opportunity to interact and engage with anyone else. What's so important is to have this agility, this, and I call it, or we call it listening intelligence. It's great self awareness, deep self awareness. What are my tendencies? What are my habits? What are my, you know, behaviors that I rely on by default? Knowing that in this particular situation with you, how am I showing up? Am I relying on those defaults? Is that what's called for in this moment? Or might I need to shift in order to have a more valuable conversation or be a better conversational partner to you? Do I need to adjust or adapt how I speak to be in support of you? So that's, that's listening intelligence. And that's, that's that skill that we develop, like you said, with reps, that agility, that malleability, that willingness to adjust.

Robin: 50:47

So someone that is tuning in and has the humility and humbleness at this point in their life that's like, Alright, I want to finally really do a deeper dive. It's a new year, new me, new life, new everything, whatever we want to call it. Better understanding and imbue the tenets of listening intelligence. Where do you think is a good starting point for them to start?

Allison: 51:13

Yeah. So I would say visit our website, Echolistening. com. I would say reach out to me personally, Alison at Echolistening. com. And let's, let's start to go there. Let's get a baseline and see by default right now. Where are you in the habits that you've developed over time? Not who you are, but what are your cognitive habits that show up when you enter into conversation? What are, what are the things that you just intuitively prefer because it's easier and more comfortable to listen to and for? What might you unintentionally overlook or miss in conversation? So start with the baseline. It always has to start with understanding yourself. And, and having that desire and deep commitment to be fully present in conversation and in communication, really authentically present. I love that.

Robin: 52:17

Baselining the habits that you already have as a starting point. That's a really great specific, well, non specific, but an answer where it becomes specific towards the individual, but not an overarching everyone needs to do X.

Allison: 52:32

Yeah, I mean, there is no one size fits all ness, you know, I think that we all, you know, we all generally accept this idea that people express themselves in different ways. Most people don't have this awareness that individuals process information in unique ways, which influences how they share information. So, when we just. If I take that basic tenet and understand that people interpret the exact same message in very different ways, we, we become much more generous in our assumptions about other people in, in conversation and in communication. If I understand that you may have taken something that I said in a way that I didn't intend it, simply because. You have different listening habits than I do. I can be so much more genuine and generous when we disagree. No doubt.

Robin: 53:39

Allison, what's something I should have asked you that I didn't ask you that you wanted to make sure you shared, if anything, before we sign off today? We,

Allison: 53:50

we got into a lot today, Robin. We did, we

Robin: 53:53

did found good content you shared. Thank you. Yeah,

Allison: 53:58

I think the one thing that I would say that is so important is that we tend to judge others by their actions. We judge ourselves by our intentions. So that's the thing that I maybe would leave people with is that if you're in a conversation and you are perceiving that there has been something negative, right? An intention, a specific intention, because you've perceived something, you know, from someone's external behavior or the way they've chosen their words. I would say, pause for a moment. Be generous in the assumption. What was the intention, if, if you were so generous in your assumptions, what would, what would you believe their intentions were versus how you judged the action itself? That is a game changer.

Robin: 55:05

100%. Have a conversation and offer grace, no doubt. Allison, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I could sit here and listen to you talk about this for hours because it is profoundly deep, impactful skills, tools and techniques and just a great healthy way to live and interact with the world around us. So, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on and I hope we get to do this again sometime soon.

Allison: 55:32

Likewise. Thanks so much, Robin.

Robin: 55:34

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Forged by Trust. Remember, if you want to forge trust, it's not how you make people feel about you that matters, it's how you make them feel about themselves. If you're interested in more information about how I can help you forge your own trust building communication and interpersonal strategies as a speaker, your coach, or a trusted advisor for you or your organization, please visit me on my website, robin dre.com. See you next time on Forged By Trust.